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Will powercreep keep scaling?

I heard one the main FEH Youtubers (Sages, I think) say powercreep is a "natural and healthy" progress for a game...but why? They're heavily obscuring old characters at this point. How will they address that? Everyone getting their own refine? Are they even aware which characters are "bad" and the like?

My best example is Lon'qu, and how he gets shitted on the best thing he had going for him, which was Spd. First, Ayra and her ridiculous Special. Then, Mia and her 19 Mt Wo Dao (and add insult to the injury, she beats him by +1 Spd & 3 Atk already) and I'm not even going to bother on Ms.35 Atk/40 Spd with Speedboon, Wrath and other broken shit.

It sounds like I'm complaining in a way that's ungrateful and unjustified, but I'm not taking back what I say. I think it's understandable.

Asked by Nogitsune6 months 2 weeks ago

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Probably. When I first heard about weapon refines, I thought this was gonna be a chance of making units, like Odin, become better than they were with cool/good effects to have them compete with other units as far as spots on teams, but I quickly learned after the first batch of refine-able weapons that that wasn't necessarily the case, at least not for the units I was hoping for. Dragons were one of the first units to get a weapon refine, for whatever reason, and it makes me question just why dragons, of all units, were the first when we had other units that could've really used the help, like Odin, Henry, Lon'Qu, Sophia, Raigh, etc.

While I do understand the 'need' for powercreep in a game like this (get people to actually spend money to get the unit) but the way it happens is very frustrating. Lon'Qu gets left in the dust unless you give him a crap-ton of inheritance while other units like Ayra can pretty much run their basic set and still do better. xD

I mean, does it really have to be in a way that inevitably scales upward? You can't just keep adding stats until characters with 50 base stats for non-HP are a thing, right? It's not even subtle, anymore.

Sophia's actually a good character. Arguably the best Raven Tome Red and probably next to the best Red Owl Tome after Tharja...

Putting powercreep on a silver platter, similar to how IS does, is not what I'd call a 'good' way to handle it, no.

And yes, the units are good when you invest in them, but weapon refinements were, I thought, a way to make a unit 'better' than they were before said refinement. Which, in most ways, it is. With that said, however, some units, I feel, have been neglected. Sophia can use a weapon refinement, or even a new weapon. Why did Lyon get a legendary Raven-tome instead of his own tome, and Sophia didn't get the Raven-tome that he got? Just something to improve on her performance.

Aside from ther rest, Sophia is actually surprisingly good, though. Can't honestly say that about Lon'qu or Henry, even after investment. Maybe I can turn Henry into a supertank, but he'll still have trouble killing unless it's off of Ignis or Raven Tome + Bonfire when the enemy has low Res and/or Triangle disadvantage. Lon'qu's fast...and that's basically it.

EDIT:

second-checking a +Atk Lon'qu with L&D and it actually isn't *that* bad...not bad at all, honestly. Could've sworn it was worse. He can actually work a +Atk refine with Heavy Blade. It's just underwhelming compared to the sword chicks.

"Of course power creep is something we’re concerned about. But we are taking action to prevent that from happening".

Taken from: https://www.polygon.com/2017/8/30/16227082/fire-emblem-heroes-interview-choose-your-legends

I dont know who that Sage youtuber is, but he doesnt sound too smart.

I remember that interview...but good thing you quoted that part.
I remember when Nephenee was powercreep (I actually think she's pretty great, though).

Yep. But i think (hope) itll be another round of CYL b4 units jump 2 scoring bins from their regular bins. Ie: infantry units being on the 165 bin

A very gentle and slow powercreep is healthy for a game for the same reason that mild, gentle inflation is healthy for an economy: it creates incentive to move forward instead of sitting around, always on the same methods and strategies. The economic equivalent (and I'm not speaking as an economist) would be a general lack of investment because it's easier just to sit on the cash; it will always exchange for exactly the same amount of goods with exactly the same amount of quality. Security is a good thing, but better still is security at the same time as being challenged to increase, grow stronger.

I do find it problematic that people who invested heavily in units like Lon'qu or Odin have their assets deprecated with almost no way to salvage, and I personally am more than a little annoyed that the powercreep in speed is so blatant with units like Karla and flying Nino. For starters, the inflation seems to happen too steeply; the majority of units in the game are going to find this extremely hard to deal with, probably more so than they should. Moreover, players get punished for investing heavily into units they like, which is bad for the game, bad for players, and in this manner if no other, bad for the developers.

I really like your point about the depreciated values - that's a relevant aspect of the problem I hadn't considered personally. The tricky thing for IS is that it'd be hard to fix the problem, seeing as it'd require some sort of higher-tier transfer of skills.

A neat idea would be that inheriting a +5 or more unit into another unit allows the new one to inherit all inheritable skills. That way if you built something like, say, a +5 Lon'qu with DC, Wrath, and Threaten Spd 3, you could have all of those skills inherit to an Ayra that you got. Sure it'd burn a heavy amount of feathers, but I'd say it'd be an interesting feature since it can at least make all the skills sacrificed not totally go to waste.

The folks above us were discussing about weapon refinery supposed to be an answer to this, and to some extent it has been. More than anything it's a way for IS to release new mechanics into the game, which, among other things, can cover for moments when they "totally missed" (ex: breath of life 2 on Aura?). In Merric's case, I think it does update the unit to keep up with powercreep, but as the above discussion pointed out, some units missed out big time.

I haven't actually been around that long. Weapon refinery was introduced in 2.0, right? Skill inheritance wasn't always a thing either. Who knows what new means of improving units will be introduced in the future? The most important question will be IS' attitude about the whole thing. If they are sufficiently invested in managing the powercreep, I can trust that solutions are coming, but based on Karla and flying Nino, their stats and abilities, I really don't like the way this looks.

It wouldn't be hard at all if they just stopped powercreep. lol

Powercreep is an inevitable part of games, and there's a simple way to look at it: some options will always be better than others. So in short, I definitely think powercreep will keep scaling.

For example, if you get a Lon'Qu early in the game, he may be strong. He's accessible, but there'll be bigger and better versions of him as time goes on, and that's just how the world works. As time progresses, people are always looking to find something better. So some units will get left in the dust inevitably, and that's where they belong. Not every unit can be viable. It's just natural that older products are oftentimes outclassed - look at iPhones or even Pokemon.

It's a fact of life that everything will be outclassed by a better version at some point, so I definitely think it will keep scaling. People want improvement, and I guess it's best to accept it.

I had considered this point about things being expendable and players being encouraged to focus on how they grow in their understanding of the game, their creativity with strategy, their accuracy with tactics. However, especially in an arena scoring system that rewards merging as much as it does, I don't think we can accept an amount of powercreep that punishes heavy investment into units.

At a broader level, I think - objectively, but let every person have his and her own opinion - this is one point where IS got it right. Investing heavily into a unit is a rewarding experience, and game mechanics need to reinforce that rather than force players to choose between loving on characters they really enjoy and being able to deal with the challenges that will be thrown at them. In life, investing deeply - whether in relationships, skills, stocks, real estate - is not done at the cost of quality of life, even if it involves sacrifices. Such investment is the means to quality of life, and we have a game where merging reflects precisely this reality, having units to turn to when L.Robin and L.Ryoma infernal maps get really ridiculous.

I still think that arena scoring needs a major overhaul and that merging maybe should not be rewarded as much as or as directly as it is now, but I maintain that - directly or indirectly - game mechanics, including arena scoring, should reward heavy investment into units of a player's choosing.

Harsh but I think that is true. Powercreep is bad, but what's worse is a game that stays stagnant - what else am I suppose do in the game once I finish building your core team? Wait for new GHB/LHB/BHB every month?
When new units are released, they need to have either new skills, unique niche or just blalant powercreeping older units to make players feel that they are relevant. This is exactly why players are so excited everytime when they announce new units, and I will even go as far as calling it as one of the most entertaining moments of FEH for me right now. Older units, unfortunately, will be replaced one day unless it miraculously receive a buff like Alm, and contrary to others' view, I don't think that the rate is going too fast now. Launch units are completely outclassed but we had over a year to build and use them already. Mia and Ayra are still strong enough in the meta even after more than half a year in the game. All of them had their fair share of time to shine and now it is time to pass the torch to new units.
I know these are some unpopular opinions but that is what I feel of the game. In short powercreep is a necessary evil to make the game stays alive, and at least IS is making effort to make older units relevant again by weapon refinements/new weapons.

Powercreep isn't just new skills. It's also unnecessarily adding stats, like they did with Karla outright crapping on units who where already badass, like Hana, Soleil & Mia. Mia and Ayra aren't even as old as you make it seem they are. It just feels like adding bigger numbers for the sake of it. What sense is their in that sort of "progress" if it's just adding numbers?

If they're giving old units like Camilla new weapons, there is no reason they couldn't give all of the old units with lower BSTs stronger A skills (if not also new specials, assists, or other passives). Certain units could get a non-inheritable Fury 3 but that grants +6 to each stat, for instance. (I think Alfonse would be great with a Wary Fighter skill.)

They could also make a "Training Hall" for skills akin to Weapon Refinery, where each non-weapon skill can get upgraded. The lower BST characters would get special refinements to bring them up to par.

One other thing they could do is make a new kind of support that adds stats relatively. They could make a "Legend" support where any one hero can be made an honorary legendary hero (of any element or whatever assigned element they have), and the older and lower bst characters would gain more from this support.