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why is everybody so afraid of Brave Lyn?

Guys I read so many post about what threat she will be and how difficult it will be to counter.
SURE! If you get attacked in arena and your AI has to defend you it will be hard but your AI defense might lose to a lot of teams even if they are stronger.
IF you attack where is the problem?
Jut outplay the AI to get close or option a) a rider to kill her or some nice melee infantry which gets thrown at her with reposition.

Asked by Dunras Thul1 year 4 months ago

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Wow, you are so courageous and smart! o_o
I'm sure everybody else is sh*tting his pants and no one ever thought that the IA could be outplayed.. THANK YOU

I really love this pi**ing contest between us -.- at least you stopped whining and can articulate something else than "oh no these imbalanced brave heroes. Nintendo is so mean, mummy" xD

Yeah, I was having my fun, exagerating things. But it seems that you were unable to understand. I like balanced games and I like irony. None of it you can understand, since you don't understand the game at all.

Anyways, look down the comments, InFinite has been patient enough to explain things up to you once again. Try to take a step back and think things up this time, instead of acting all mighty.

Seriously, I'm glad for you that they added these 4 heroes, 164 heroes must have been hard to come around, understanding which one is good and which one is not. Since you were thinking Merric was super meta (countering Guidance and flyer team, lolz)

1. you are talking of a balanced game in a mobile gacha haha nevermind how much effort you put into it and no matter how much luck you have when getting soem heroes the top 10% are nearly impossible to reach due to whales buying through the whole game. So balanced is rather illusionary.
2. And yeah you downvoted Merric but I never said he is SS tier was just saying that he has quite some useful hero which can check a lot of different needs in one caster. (e.g. yeah maybe every other green mage can take a hit by Reinhard better but how many do still survive to the better red lords?). So I loved FE back when I was a child and I really enjoy this mobile version now where I try to have fun & achieve a lot of things while being a part-time-player and f2p
3. yeah InFinite's post was really thoughtful and by far more helpful than 80% of your comments (well that Seliph build was ok). But insinuating that I am stupid and need explanations when you think every word you drop is gold rather than sh*t makes me think about whom of us really feels almighty xD

cheers

Come on both of you, stop this internet comment war :(

I am sorry. You are right and this escalated quit quickly. I admit it was fun in between but I will also try to control myself in the future :)

You don't have to be sorry. It's fun watching you two barking at each other. I hoped I would escalate it a bit more with my sarcastic comment, although I understand that it's sometimes impossible to identify sarcasm in written form, especially on the internet.

who knows xD

It was told many times that this kid can't get/understand sarcasm, irony or any subtle. Keep it straight mate.

(1) You know, I'm aware of it, I mean, any mobile game is more of a business than an actual game. I like FE, I like balanced game, I think FEH was quite balanced so far, it's all. I'm a bit disappointed about the incoming events but it was more about joking/whining on it for fun than for hate. I hope you understand this at least.

(2) I didn't mean to downvote your Merric build, but I agree that my opinion was going against yours, and I realize how you could misunderstand it, I meant to point out what was wrong in it, after all.
But the fact is, you misunderstand a lot, for exemple "imbalanced" is different from "unbeatable / invincible", it seems that you associate those two together a lot.

(3) Of course, lately I've been a bit tactless to you, because I realized you were unable to see things in different perspectives. I humbly think my comments are far more valuable than you think they are. I mean, if you run accross a thread about BST, growth rate, team building, summon rates glitches, or just knowledge/help questions, you will see what it's all about.
Go through my comments (on any threads, knowing mine were mostly ironic recently) and tell me which one isn't constructive. You can even go 1month ago, and keep checking. Even when I'm tactless, I never comment unless I can add a constructive critics.

I think, older members here will all agree on that.

I'm not adding constructive matters to your remarks anymore, because you are not willing to understand others' remarks, nor to change your opinion. You are obviously the opposite of a constructive debat partner, so I just figured out you were annoying (on the moment) and I immaturely and impulsively commented something as stupid as your remark.

I'm not sorry for it but I will not comment your senseless remarks anymore anyways. Fear not.

finally silence xD even if it is paid by taking your 1-4 points version of "I am tactless and you don't understand" ;) btw haven't seen in any thread that you were open to change your own point of view no matter what

If you click on the "2, 3, 4, 5..." number at the bottom of the Q&A page, you'll be able to consult older threads.

Or should I link some, if you can't click?
I think, me recommending you to read the comment below was a good exemple of me being open to opinions and remarks, even before you ask it.

You always say to others "your opinion is ok, but my idea is best if this, if this and if that...". While you don't even reflect on others' opinion. So cut if off kid.

nice while it lasted (around 20 min) ^^
You started it today btw. there were a lot of threads about how hard Brave Lyn will be on enemy teams (you can click 2,3,4 and so on yourself regarding this). all I wanted to was to have a positive related and open thread towards those new heroes AND the fact that 1 is for free which is regarded way too little imo.
and if you generalize my justification from Merric's build I might start questioning your competence xD
but hey about competence:
"I think, the best IVs for Lyn are +Atk or +Spd/-Res if you wanna play her straight, or even +Atk/-Spd can have some creative and effective builds for her." Sure +spd-atk is really bad IV for Lyn but your advice for her having +atk or +spd (if not -atk) was really priceless. I better not come up with my neutral atk and spd Lyn otherwise you might wanna arrest me

Seriously, it's not even accurate. All you try to do is to find an offensive thing to say. How miserable can one be?

I didn't tell anything false to him, did I ? I anwsered his question : "is Lyn worth to build/salvage with this IV set?" I told him what are the best IVs to use her straight and also a set of workable IV (+atk/-spd) which isn't intuitive AND a consequence of the meta-shift on Lyn's viability.

Feel free to tell him "hey, use +def, it can be good if this, if that and if..." saying this kind of crap (finishing with your " xD " kido) is what you do best. Go ahead. Do better. Do your best.

If you speak to me, it's logical and polite to anwser you. I was referring to your "remarks" not your reply. Do you know that each word as a specific meaning...?

I've never seen as irrational, why did I get involved with such a plague... fck me.

answer to this: xD

I haven't noticed people being afraid of Lyn. She is definitely strong tho, because she is a unique hero type who comes with a powerful skill set right from the start, which means that she's not going to need much inheritance to make her even stronger.

Because she has a good chance of wrecking your score in arena and your deathless runs. Buffed up with horse buffs, a great set of skills out the box: swift sparrow, sacae's blessing and atk smoke 3. Give her a brave bow and she is a colourless Reinhardt.

I'm gunna give her close counter X:D

I'm honestly afraid of her because she's gonna make going through deathless runs even more annoying. She's strong but there's counterplay to this.

The only way most people lose in arena is because the AI makes some stupid, unpredictable play and kills one of your units with a dancer and/or cavalry unit. Which nets for an instant surrender since your score is ruined.

Now if you give the AI easy to use heores that don't need a lot of thinking to utilise like Reinhardt, Lyn, Ike, or a dancer on the team, and you've created something that's very hard to play against. Now, Brave Ike and Hector are easy to play around since they're mainly just hard to kill, but on the other hand, Reinhardt and Lyn with a dancer can one shot just about anything and their range can also cover the entire map which means no one is safe. Put that in the hands of the dumb, unpredictable AI and you can't actually reliably win against all of them 7 times in a row (since they are and will be in just about every team).
I personally just had an Arena run with a dancer and cavalry unit in every single team I went up against, I managed to finish it (with 1 dead), but it was so damn tense since it felt like one mistake and my score was donezo. Now if you add Lyn to every single team, or even just a single team out of the seven, she can ruin your deathless run and make it hard to get a good score, especially for newcomers and people with weaker or non-meta teams.

What Lyn has over Reinhardt however, is the fact that she is flexible and has many different, equally powerful builds she can run, which means you can't just bring a single hard counter and expect to deal with every single variant of Lyn.

But truth be told, I'm not all that scared, I just don't like having to deal with these one shot, 5 range, dancer combos.

I wish I had your patience to explain this kind of things over and over again, to people who obviously can't take things into perspective. I mean, there has been numerous threads which were explaining all that, and inspite of it, someone post "heeeh don't be afraid, it's an IA" thread.

You clearly explained the matter, although I wouldn't say that bringing difficulty in the arena "isn't fun". It's cool to be challenged. The thing that is not fun tho, is that this difficulty will be brought at the cost of diversity and tactical creativity.

Yes, everyone will run a Brave Hero in his team, if not several, and mostly likely Brave Lyn (in possibly many different ways). And that's what kills diversity. The heroes that were underused because they were requiring a lot of SI and creativity to be good (i.e. Ogma, Caeda, Clair, Shanna, Faye, Hawkeye, Raven, Minerva, etc). They are a lot less worth to invest into and viable to run with the implementation of Brave Heroes.

A last thing, that I'm happy and disappointed about at the same time is :
Yes Lyn and Ike are hardcountered the Bladetomes, emblem buffs hegemony, but at the same time, they counter it so hard by being "1 time free" units, that it will actually kill a lot of the creative variantes among this OP-side of the meta. While at the same time, players now have to deal with a different OP-side of the meta (brave heroes), which seem just as hard to counter, if not more (requiring specific check units in your team).

Hmm, honestly, I just like hearing other people's opinions and sharing my own for whatever worth it might be for. I said this in a topic a while back about how I like taking in other people's perspectives, experiences, and opinions in order to, I suppose, add to my library if you will, in order to build onto my own knowledge and opinion (in a non-personal way though). So in a way, I like to read what others write and explain things my way to both get my perspective across and to prompt others to share their ideas on the said topic. And funnily enough because of this I actually prefer when people disagree and correct me, so long as they have a good argument worth following up on.

As for you saying I think it's not fun to be challenged, I didn't know my comment actually gave off that vibe and I don't know where my mistake was, so I guess I can't even go back and fix it either lmao.
The diversity and incorrect method of balance you mentioned is how I actually feel about these new heroes as well. You honestly could not have put it better, it's definitely what's taking away from the freedom and creativity of the game. But I do like these Brave Heroes, I probably won't use them in arena defence, but I am excited about getting them.

I could tell why you like commenting, after it's exactly how I feel as well. And that's exactly why I add critics, recommendations or my opinion (trying to add something when I agree too) as often as I can.

That's why I told you "you are patient" because as you stated it, numerous threads have discussed this subject in detail already. You and I added to it, and the person who made this thread obviously came across many of them and still comment something as senseless... it got me annoyed and I commented something as irrelevant as he did. For once but I won't bother for him anymore.

Wasting time to explain things to someone who doesn't pay attention to other perspectives and opinions that his. Never adding a good argument... but rather senseless remarks.

Anyways, I'm glad I put your thoughts in words that couldn't be put better, that's what you did just earlier too.

The part about "challenge and fun" came from this part of your comment : "I personally just has an Arena run with a dancer and cavalry unit [...] but it was not fun to say the least."

I understood it was a figure of speech, to say it was challenging, so I added that part about challenge being fun, but I didn't mean to say you don't like challenge too. I think we are pretty similar on this aspect too (looking at how you feel about the new brave heroes release).

I'm excited too, because I like how they brought the lord forms of those super cool heroes, but I thought it was unfair for the most of the 164 existing heroes (not being on the same BST level, exclusive passivs and SSS-tier legendary weapons).

*Very long and not related to topic (just a reply)*
________

You know what, I think you're far more creative and experienced with this game than I am, but now I feel as if we're two peas in a pod in many ways.

I personally don't like beef with others in general, so I'll stay out the way of you and Dunras. But I do find it unfortunate that you two couldn't get along (even if it was slightly amusing to watch :P, for a while anyways, then it got pretty real).

Anyways, moving past our support convo. Thanks for pointing out the confusion, I'll see what I can do (I am having a chuckle about the "has" typo though).
And since we're kind of moving away from the topic anyways, I honestly think fighting Dancers is actually one of the most fun things about arena (for me at least) since it's actually very strategic and lets me actually have to think. But... (continuing below)

And although you're right, my statement was just there to help along a point, I think I said it because the run did tilt me. On the last map, it was going fine, baited Alfonse and Seth to the right (also got stuck in a Reposition loop), Hector and Azura to the left. Killed Hector with Cherche (Axebreaker), moved her out of the way with Reposition and placed Legion perfectly inside of Azura's range and out of the range of the two reds. Ended turn, game's pretty much over, 4800 easy even with 4 star Legion. Waiting for Azura to come suicide when suddenly... Seth moved first, Rallies Azura, Azura then dances for Seth, who then continues to kill my Legion.
I mean, was it my fault? Am I bad? Did I misplay?! What the hell is that!?!!?

*Sigh* At least I know now, but in what world was I supposed to predict that?

Anyways, this isn't very helpful, but I hope it was amusing to read.

I'm going to react solely to the painful arena experience.

I think that what happened to you was a result of an AI adjustment from a few months ago where the devs remade Dancers' priorities. Their first priority is to dance and then only if there is noone friendly in range will they fight. This of course only happens if she makes her turn after another allied hero (which is why it's useful to put your dancer on a place after a hero that you want to get danced the most when editing your team).

I hope I got this right. It happened to me as well, I feel your pain. You made the most logical play, but the AI went full terminator mode and just abused the dance mechanic.

Yes you're definitely right, but I think Azura had attack priority which meant Seth had Rally priority on her and this caused Azura to switch to Dance priority after Seth rallied (unless that's what you meant, in which case, my mistake). Because attacks happen before movement, I didn't think it was a problem, but that Rally messed it all up.

I'm a positive guy for the most part, so I'll be happy I learned something new, but yeah, I guess we can still be tilted together haha.

Ah, I didn't see your anwser. I've just explained this to you in my long answer just below, while you got it right. I guessed you know but since you asked "Did I do something wrong?" I thought I'd explain it heh!

I must admit, discovering is a little passion of mine. Everything I start to learn about, I dig it as deep as possible without even noticing it. Some would call it "passion" but it's more a mature of curiosity. I like to know all the rules of the game, not only the one written on the paper.

Then creativity is almost a result of it. Being a pea in a pod, just like everyone, is what makes it worth it too. If I was rewarded by being something else for it, it would break the balance, break my fun. I mean, I prefer to win with the same weapons as other rather than getting an unfair advantage.

I totally get what you mean about Dancers. They kind of are the fun side of the arena, making it less predictable. What happenned to you is due to the fact that a IA who can't attack will always use his assist in priority. Then Azura runs SapphireLance+, so she deals 0dmg to your green unit, so she ignored it and used her assist instead. (That's the risk when baiting with hardcounter units)

Even tho I know it, I still get a bit surprised by those tricks too, from time to time.

To close the subject about Dunras, I don't think it's "unfortunate", it was unavoidable from the start. I get annoyed by this type of person who never question himself.
He never give 2 minutes of thinking to what people have to tell but he allows himself to open debats, where he doesn't even plan on thinking back on the subject. I mean, just check his theorycrafts or other threads. His comments are pointless and he won't ever move from an inch from his initial opinion, with only argument "it depends on...", I mean, sure... but then don't ask for opinions. No valid arguments, all he wants is to draw attention, like this thread which has no reason to be and no purpose to fulfil (except from drawing attention).

But at least, it entertained you and Guts quite a bit, and probably the kid too. I tried to be clear on what was my issues with him but he clearly can't understand even a bit, he is like a kid denying anything that isn't a compliment.

Concerning your message, I wouldn't say it's not helpful, it helped me clarify myself and my reason for being so "beef" (taking your words), so thank you.

Mhm, well I suppose the situation can't be helped, and as you've made clear, it doesn't look like either of you want to shake hands and make peace anyways, so I won't push it.

Also yes, the mistake was 100% mine against that Azura, I should have known Seth was going to Rally. But since both my greens were on the same side as Azura, I didn't know whether I should risk the reds running towards Azura and getting danced, so I shall stand by decision :P

Finally, just as a clarification for my Australian slang, 'Beef' usually means disagreement or tension between two people but it can also be used to describe body size, so I would word it as "[your] beef towards" rather than "being beef".
I mean, don't get me wrong, you could be a very buff person for all I know, but it does sound quite funny when used incorrectly haha.
But yeah, you don't need to worry about it, I just wanted you to know what it sounded like to me.

Hahaha ! It's not the meaning that it has here. I mean, we do use it to describe a very muscular person too but otherwise it's more like "going head down the conflict".

Also, I tried to "shake hands" with him, once, the first time I noticed his consistant misunderstanding. I always give 2 chances to people (as I would like them to give to me), because I believe, by giving rights to other, you give rights to yourself. But this guy is just illogical, he is a plague in his behavior and personality. Nothing I can stand with my frank and direct personality.

Mostly because she's Reinhardt, but isn't limited by color disadvantage and can run CA (so basically doesn't care about TAs) and DC cancel. Also, the versatility of the character makes her unpredictable. She can run brave, firesweep, her usual weapon, with CA, Desperation, sacae's blessing, etc. On the other hand, good luck seeing a Reinhardt without Dire Thunder.

It's the fact i'll face a team with her and reinhardt on, it will make it really hard to take one out without being killed by the other. Not that I find that a problem anyway, the games incredibly boring if it's too easy

The one nice thing about everyone doing something in any Meta is it becomes predictable. When Reinhardt became the unstoppable menace in the game, people took a long hard look at the roster and found our favorite cuddly wuddly green Manakete who became an unstoppable Meta dumpster machine.

It is rather annoying that IS is releasing such an overpowered hero, especially in a limited edition form which means she'll be both abusable for whales and inaccessible for newcomers in the future. But it doesn't mean there aren't answers to her. TA Raven Tome users, particularly those backed by Bowbreaker, will easily dispatch a Lyn (Boey, Cecilia, and even non -Def Julias all being good candidates). Lyn's low HP and Def and mediocre Res makes her vulnerable to Ploy skills. Non-armor tanks can use Aegis, a long-forgotten skill, to align with the hit she'll have Luna for which will negate most of her defense against those with mid-40s Def.

To be honest, the most annoying thing about this is IS tricked us all into investing in Flier Emblem with the release of Summer Corrin only to drop Lyn on us immediately, making Flier Emblem useless again.

fully agree. there are some specials outside luna, moonbow, bonfire etc. might add some diversity as well instead of just cutting creativity.

also would be interesting to see how many build a flier emblen recently. I did myself, too ^^ imo more of a niche team compared to horse emblem or mixed infantry teams

You know what, I would really like to see Rend Heaven, 3/4 turn CD (depending on how OP you want it to be) that does an extra 50% of your opponents attack. This will work great against Lancina, Delthea, and Emblem Buffs. And if IS really wants to shut down Blade tome, make it more of a Astra/Glimmer for enemy damage (although this will be kinda crap IMO, but better than Astra and Glimmer at least).

As for Flier Emblem, I run a high BST team for Arena Assault, followed by Cav, and then Flier. It was also recent since I don't have S!Camilla and obviously just got S!Corrin. Even with Brave Lyn, I'll happily run it and continue to build it, buuut, I might not use it in normal Arena :P

There is so much salt and squabbling on this thread that I thought i got lost and ended up on a hearthstone board.

Welcome in the tavern, take a sit!

Ironically enough, this game replaced HS for me as the mobile game I spend the most time on. Balance issues there make the brave heroes look underpowered; and the community here is actually really nice for the most part.