So, after a fairly long wait, he's finally released, and I was wondering, what are your experiences and thoughts on using him or going up against him so far? What builds have you been running or seen people running, and how has it been working out for you or against you?
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I'm asking because I'm personally planning to give him all of his options when I finally get some more feather; Fury, Steady Breath, Wrath, QR, Vantage, etc. But, all these options have been nothing but theorycrafts so far and I want to hear some real feedback on your guys' experiences.
Can he survive long enough with Steady!Wrath? How's Fury working out? Can he stay in QR range? Vantage any good? Black Luna working out like we thought it would, or is it getting wasted? Anyone decided to go down the Aether route rather than Black Luna?
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Anyways, my questions are mostly hypothetical so don't worry about answering, I just want to hear what you guys have to say.
Every black knight I’ve seen in the arena so far has been running vantage, mostly with Amelia on the team too to buff his movement. Honestly I’m yet to find him as a big threat with this build because valter with sword breaker just kills black knight in one round and only takes like 8 damage in the process
This. This is actually why I wanted to bring up this topic. I haven't had a lot of time using him myself and every single BK I find in Arena gets not ORKO'd but OHKO'd by my Reinhardt due to his low merge potential, which limits my experience against him even more since his QP!Steady!Wrath combo or Vantage can't even proc and he just gets blown up.
Ryoma's husbandu final boss BK has been stomping top of the Arena teams according to him. Given he's up against +10 monster merge units, I trust him on how good that Steady Breath/Wrath build can be. The Vantage build doesn't seem particularly scary to be honest so far. I think we've all just gotten good at dealing with Vantage over time because of Ryoma/Ike/Hector.
I've only gotten to muck around with him a bit so far and I lack the resources for the final boss build of him. Fury 3/QR 2 though is a pretty money build on the cheap. With Fury and two Wards on him, he hits a very respectable 29 res. You can get that into the 30s with supports, and even up to 35 with the Distant Counter seal. Of course, he's going to get knocked out of QR range after typically one duel with a blue or red magic user. That's the only downside of it. Even physical blues barely dent his armor without a ton of buffing or specials proccing. Also, if you're running 2 armors and a bonus unit for him in Arena and want Armor March, that means either running Amelia over Hector or Effie or sacrificing an Amelia to Black Knight.
With the Panic Ploy seal now available, you can slap it on one of your armor units and still have access to 2-3 armor buffs *and* Armor March, which is huge.
Basically, Reinhardt, Brave Lance Effie, Blade Tome Blues, and TA blues/Sapphire weapon users are the only things that can deal with the fully decked out build as Black Luna is a death sentence for almost everyone in the cast. Alternatively, you need a Firesweep weapon user and have to slowly whittle him down. Tana is probably the best candidate for this role. For anything running a cheaper build, you just have to kill him before Black Luna procs.
Arena wise, I think Steady!Wrath is unbeatable in the player's hands. The ability to instantly remove threats, regardless of colour, is pretty insane. I'm just wondering how many units he can reliably bait before he runs out of juice.
I'm also really wondering about Fury right now because the queue for it is quite long. But it does seem like his best bet until I get a proper Steady Breath fodder, I'm just worried he won't be able to use it as well as Ryoma or Xander since he can't initiate as well.
But yeah, I didn't think he could actually stay in QR range all that long, which is why I wanted to know how useful it would be. My impression would be that he could use Fury!QR to remove a threat and then have Black Luna to remove another. But obviously, just like Wrath, he doesn't exactly have enough bulk to do much past that (at least in theory, which is why I'm curious about people's experience with him).
I mentioned my situation in my other reply, so I'm still wondering how easy it would be for him to actually get Black Luna off in the player's hands since I just one shot the guy.
On some level, it's kind of like a lot of units: if you can nuke him before he becomes a threat, it doesn't matter. Plus armor units are easier to manipulate because of their low movement rate. I will say, even if a mage does take a chunk out of his health, you can buff his defense so much that physical units do little other than charge Black Luna.
I don't think I've ever had much luck keeping almost any unit in QR range for more than one fight without TA or Renewal. That's always been one of the advantages Hector had in that he would transition from QR to Vantage range.
It's so hard to judge anything in this game based off the AI with how dumb it is. I've been auto battling in TT just to grind points, and I've watched the AI swap Ike out of bait range on a green mage to move in Nephenee...
The Black Knight is, as advertised, very powerful and versatile... But he doesn't have one build that excels at everything. One thing I've noticed, unless you can one shot him its almost always preferable to bait with a counter/check rather than engage - this makes him very easy to handle when he's AI controlled.
Here are some of my general thoughts about the various builds that I've seen on him so far.
QP, Steady Breath, Wrath: This is his most hyped build as Black Luna can eliminate the vast majority of units, even the majority of Blues, when attacked. I'd classify this as enemy phase nuke...and it is very strong but honestly it's quite easy to play around. Just bait him.
Guard - Per usual, this underrated skill is surprisingly good. It delays the enemy's Special just long enough for him to fire off his own. It's not quite as lethal as Wrath in a SB/QP set-up but it improves his ability to win duels when attacking or baiting - particularly against other Black Knights and QP/Moonbow abusers.
Vantage - I know that everyone is hyped over the new skills but I think this is still his best B slot. Just like on Hector it can effectively be a win condition, especially with Black Luna up, unless the enemy is running a specific counter (granted B!Lyn is super common right now) or Hardy Bearing (easy to deactivate).
Fury - I've been surprised... Haven't seen this nearly as often as I expected too. Most people seem to either be sacrificing B!Ike for Steady Breath or going with Steady Stance. I don't run it on him myself but I think that, as with Ike and Ryoma, it's a solid option.
QR - I haven't seen this and I don't think it's a great idea, personally. Sure, it helps if the attacker is faster than the Black Knight...but at 34 base I think he does better with a different B slot. In any case, running QR just reinforces vulnerability to being baited.
You're right, he's no where near as powerful as he is with Black Luna ready, and his weakness to being baited and OHKO'd by blues does make him quite fragile in many cases, whatever build he runs.
I think my main predicament is around his B-Slot. After reading your comment, it just further strengthens my first impression of him, which is that, in the AI's hands, he's pretty damn easy to deal with.
But what about the player's hands? Do you think you'll give him Vantage yourself over the other ones?
I also really like the idea of Guard though, it'll also help him deal with other Black Knight's, which is really nice.
I'm mainly just worried about his speed tier, enough not to get doubled, but not enough to double himself. Makes him pretty weak without Black Luna, and is the main reason I'm wondering how strong he is without a B-Skill that speeds up Black Luna since he has less attack than Zephiel and Fury!Xander.
Although unorthodox, I can't say that's a bad idea considering BB will take care of reds and greens for your particular team. But if your normal Hector survives Reinhardt, you can always just heal him up with Gwen. Now the only weakness for your team is Brave Lyn, who can run brave bow and her original b-skill to quad all armors to death.
Sadly my Hector is -RES... If I remember correctly, with an HP seal he can still tank unmerged/unbuffed Reinhardt but that's not really good enough.
You're right. Brave Bow+ B!Lyn running S!Blessing is still a problem. I've found that this team comp can tank her other builds but that one has been problematic. I've been hoping that the Black Knight could be my answer - he's fast enough to avoid quads and panic ploy will prevent her from buffing, but not sure that he's bulky enough after Life & Death to tank her if she's running QP/Moonbow.
This actually looks really interesting, it basically runs the same as my +Atk Minerva. It sucks I don't have Armour March or Guidance for the mobility, because that extra attack from Hone Armour makes him so deadly. I've always wanted to run a Hybrid Armour team with my Zephiel and Effie, but never got the chance. Do you have trouble moving them around? Because I think I might try something like this when I get a Hector or Amelia.
I've done quite some arena runs (>30) with Burger King, and I could testify that Black Luna + Stready Breath + Wrath + QP is the most oppressive combination in arena offense. With this build, he one-shots all red, all green, and most blues. Simply put, he becomes the best bait nuke in the game.
It's ridiculous, to be honest. Black Luna is just way too powerful as a 3-charge special and, when combined with Steady Breath and Wrath, produces absurd results such as OHKO sapphire Azura.
And yes, after his first retaliation to finish an opponent, he still has enough bulk left to bait and kill more, provided that the second enemy is not a strong blue. What I've found was that due to his decent spd and OHKO nuking power, he has a pseudo-Wary Fighter, which allows him to have great survivability despite not running Aether. This is particularly true in arena.
I also tested him with Steady Breath + Aether + QR, and it works very well in PvE, similar to normal Ike's build. It is definitely worth it to give him Aether, and fortunately, a Brave Ike will provide both Aether and Steady Breath.
Regarding Vantage, I've inherited the skill on BB but have not used it. I suspect that maybe it is more useful in arena defense, but I don't think that it will top Wrath in arena offense.
Playing against BB is not too difficult as long as you have a strong blue unit that baits BB into attacking him/her first, not vice versa. Or, he can be killed by strong blue mages (usually requiring buffs) that can one-shot him. In other words, BB is terrifyingly powerful in player's hands, and still very good (but not as powerful) in AI's hands.
I'm not a big fan of Fury on a bait unit. Compared to Fury, I prefer L&D. Now, if you give BB L&D, summoner support, and hone armor, he reaches top speed tier, which acts as pseudo-Wary Fighter and QR. This should allow you to run Vantage more effectively.
Hmm, I just realized that this is exactly Kaihaku's build...
The problem with BK is that while he can stand and even kill a lot of blues in retaliation, the blues that survives his retaliation are actually common blue threats in the arena (Reinhardt, LnD blade tome Linde, Delthea, Brave Lance Effie, those chars can just one shot him and bypass his retaliations)
Honestly, with those common blue threats running around, I think his survivability on defense is really low that it doesn't worth mentioning
I didn't say that he is completely hopeless in defense though
I've been reading everyone's comments and honestly, I'm surprised that no one mentions keeping his original WoM on him for defense
For some reason, AI has better compatibility with WoM more than anything, I'm ashamed to admit that my deathless run has been destroyed a few times because of Hector running WoM on arena
Though it seems that WoM won't work as good as Vantage, but, what is the meaning of Vantage when Reinhardt and Effie ORKO BK with no efforts?
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