I tend not to like one-and-done builds, builds that are good for one enemy and then are like a dead body I need to carry out of battle. PvE often requires a unit to take on multiple opponents. However, I'm starting to get the sense that I'm expecting too much out of my units. Can I get some pointers here?
I wouldn't expect a tank or duelist to do much more if he/she has to grind through a disadvantageous matchup (ex: blue on green) or brace through something like a regnal astra/ignis, but otherwise would it be reasonable to aim for multiple engagements with a unit without getting healed in between?
EDIT: healed by a teammate, i.e. other than relying on healing specials. Ex: taking on multiple opponents and healing with aether
Sounds like you're wanting a super-tank like Lukas with Guard. It's possible for a unit to tank multiple units and not get healed, but it requires a lot of defense and/or resistance to be able to do it, and possibly Guard (or other units to actually kill the weakened unit on Player Phase.
Even a Lukas can actually deal a lot of damage on Player Phase when he has an "enemy phase" set.
How much bulk do you think would suffice? I've been doing it with a summoner supported -HP +res Zelgius, 48HP 40def 27res, staying away from any red or blue mages that can double him and absolute maximum of one hit from either of those before healing him.
(edit) He's using aether and heavy blade seal. That's one reason why I want to build a steady breath dragon - just aether, aether, aether, find colour advantage against some fresh victim, aether
Not really sure, to be honest. I guess that mostly depends what the enemy units are, and what your units are using as far as far as buffs/debuffs.
Edit: Just saw both of your edits. With Aether, it's even more of a toss-up. My Donnel can tank quite a lot of units thanks to the survivability of Aether, so, yeah, it's too random in my opinion.
For being able to tank a near endless stream of opponents noone imo beats L!Ephraim.
Don't fling him into the path of things like Green Blade/Wolf tomes and he'll still be sitting at max health or close to it at the end of the battle. That 1 charge/60% heal special does a lot of work.
Not to say he doesn't have weaknesses but they're clear cut and obvious things, anything that isn't a hard counter pretty much can't kill him. Stick him on a tactics/cavalry team if you want best results. When he's running at +6 to all stats he can actually plow through some of his harder counters.
I tend to run him on a tactics team to push his stats up a bit. The core premise is that he's not going to outright one shot anything with high defence but he'll walk it off and cripple anyone else around them with Attack Smoke. What he leaves behind is easily mopped up on the following turn.
For reference the team I run him on is ...
PA!Azura Def/Res dual tactic setup
Blade Tome Bridal Tharja
Priscilla with Atk Tactic and Hone Speed (replaced with Speed Tactic when it comes out eventually).
Gwendolyn is generally pretty easily dealt with by Tharja since the damage she gets out of tactics buffs is insane on a blade tome. Even without her Gwendolyn can't exactly deal much damage to Ephraim in the first place herself, the main thing to worry about would be Panic Ploy which can largely be handled by positioning since Armour units aren't exactly the kings of mobility.
As for blue mages, if it doesn't have a blade/wolf tome or the name "Reinhardt" it can't kill him without retaliation which is fatal for the majority of mages. Even the ones that are fatal can generally be dealt with by getting the first strike on them instead of letting them initiate.
Priscilla's staff for the moment is Gravity since Pain is counter productive to Ephraim's drain strategy. I've been weighing the pros and cons of giving her a spare Candlelight staff though, since there's times I feel shutting down enemy counters would make things a lot easier.
Edit: I forgot to mention the blue mages.
Same here buddy, thats why i prefer armor units and using wall builds. Get yourself an armor team, invest some time and resources and i guarantee you wont regret; for now i have 2 teams centered around a certain unit where the said unit ( W Tharja and H Jakob ) can tank ( and kill ) pretty much the whole chain challenge map ( or at least half :D )
I've enjoyed enemy phase play for a while - my (manual played) team on the WT tempest trials was Reinhardt, Zelgius, Fjorm, and Mist. I like armours for tanking, yes. I'm getting a little bit bored with how passive it gets, just find favourable matchups at the edge of the red zone and sit around, so I'm looking more into infantry and flier teams that involve some ranged aggression and a very solid tank when I need to bait or get my glass cannon out of harm's way.
Oh its supposed to be noontime to heal him up. And hes good outise flier emblem.
Ye ye you didnt say that in ur original post. And yes you are indeed expecting too much from your units. Even the best units (dragons) cant handle every mathup. You will always be giving up something for certain matchups. This is where good TEAM BUILDING comes into place.....
I do accept aether and guard and vantage (and desperation and/or galeforce on glass cannons, which I thought people would assume because that's the obvious attempt to continue attacking after taking damage), and I'm referring mainly to PvE. I know I've done it with heavy blade aether; my question was whether it's too ambitious for most tanks. I don't need to take on 3-4 opponents with one unit in arena. I guess you're talking arena?
Also, to hell with the obsession over tier lists. I get that some units have potential to tank harder or be deadlier or just straight up score better in a system that rewards people for spamming BST and SP instead of being creative and working with what fits them most. People need to develop their own play style and make it work against the challenges PvE and other players will throw at them.
Most armoured units can do the job perfectly, especially with multiple wards:
-Hardin is the perfect example : with 34 attack, 36 defense and 32 resistance at neutral, he only gets killed by the strongest of green mages like nino, and even if he DOES get killed, if he gets a hit in it’s definitely going to chunk away half of her hit points. Only true mage counter to Hardin is Boey, as stupid as it sounds.
Zelgius is not that good against mages but you can’t be perfect at everything (except from Hardin)
Grima is pretty good too: 35/27 def/res can tank his through a lot of matchups; couple it up aether and you got one broken ass self healing edgy boi.
There are exceptions from these new(est) units, such as Myrrh who is so so good with her own weapon. But do watch out for Falchions.
So, I have a couple units that I use to TT autobattle for this exact reason that they can tank multiple units.
So, first off is Grima if you have Steady/Warding Breath, Aether and a QR effect. (QR3 or Vengeful Fighter) He has enough tankiness to tank a bunch, and enough attack to really make use of Aether. If you pair up Steady Breath with Aether, as long as you are doubled you will proc it every fight, or have it up for the next enemy. This applies to any of the DC armors, since they don't have to trade a Breath skill for DC.
Another one I use a lot are healers. If you put Absorb+ on a healer and give them Close Counter, Miracle and QR (and Vantage for good measure) you can make them into a surprisingly good tank. While they will take damage, they will heal nearly all of it back up if you build them right. Miracle is amazing in that they will often proc it and then heal up on their own turn, making them able to last a long time again. It is a very expensive kit, and often you will need a higher merge level to pull it off, but it is a very effective tank build, surprisingly. (Firesweep, Desperation and Brave weapons murder the poor things, though.)
The third option is one of the Falchions (or Arvis). Pairing up Renewal and their refined weapon makes them get a nice +20 healing, which is pretty great.
Also L!Ephraim with Noontime/Sol and Solar Brace, though it's a bit harder since he won't have a special to finish units off with. In the right circumstances he can sustain himself for quite a while, though.
I use offense as a defensive tactic. 2 units I use are M and Fgrima. Both come with DC weapons. And slap vantage on em. Now u have a unit that will always hit first unless unit has a method to stop it like dazzle or water sweep or that one seal nobody uses. Get atk+ IVs and stack as much atk as possible with spurs hones support etc. as long as it’s not a infernal boss or some massive hp broken stat enemy, they should one shot all units that try engaging u. U can have piss poor def or res or spd as long as u hit vantage active
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