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Strange argument: bold fighter is good for the game?!

I think it's stupid that armours can throw speed out the window for nothing, but I came up with a weird idea and I'd like to see where you guys can take it.

Think of it as rock-paper-scissors, or kind of like the weapon triangle. Slow tanks have a tendency to lose to glass cannons who just double through them, sometimes without a special (blade tomes, for example, or galeforcers). Glass cannons have a tendency to lose to fast tanks who have just enough speed to deny their doubles, QR back, all while minimizing damage with good defenses. Then who are the fast tanks losing to? Brave weapons? Nowi can win against Reinhardt if she uses distant def, which is one of her most popular seals. Slow tanks? No, because they'll also double the slow tanks on either phase, and if they play smart they probably win there too. Bold fighter provides a way for slow tanks to cause issues for fast tanks because fast tanks tend not to use guard because they rely on blocking doubles and stat points invested in spd are not invested in defenses so they use something like distant def or close def as a seal to help compensate.

It's definitely nowhere near the best of my ideas, but I thought it would make for good discussion. So, your thoughts?

Asked by Seeker2 months 2 weeks ago

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I don't think this really applies. People tend to forget about the team aspect of the game when discussing it in a vacuum.
In the simplest sense, glass cannons tend to be your unit that'll do the most killing. Your tank's job (be they fast or slow) is to bait in and survive the Glass cannons, so they can be killed by your own cannons.
All units fall somewhere along the glass cannon <-> Tank line. Units such as B!Celica, Cordelia, Lewyn and Ishtar obviously showing up as extreme glass cannons and unit like Arden, Sheena, W!Tharja, Myrrh and Beruka being main tanks.
The issue is that Bold Fighter (and to a lesser extent Vengeful and Special Fighter) allow units on the tank end of the spectrum to ALSO act as Glass Cannons, just without the weakness of frailty. Not only does this reduce the necessity of Glass Cannon units, but it also reduces the effectiveness of non-armour tank units such as Beruka, Lukas, Hinata etc.
And as a side point, all these tanks being given DC weapons for free makes them even more necessary, have even less counterplay, and reduces the viability of ranged units.
And that's why high tier arena is four 5*+10 BF units vs your own four 5*+10 BF units.

I like this spectrum idea that you have.

What it shows me is that nowadays, it pays to be on either extreme. The thing about bold fighters is that most of them can't use guard, so if they have mixed defenses, they're actually going to get doubled and hit with a big special by some aggressor. So it's still very viable to be on the glass cannon end as long as you're far enough in that direction. If you want to be on the tanky end, guard or specializing in one defensive stat (difficult to double through 47 def + 47 HP even with a special) is advisable, so what bold fighter tends to do to the meta is force polarization.

It was always possible for most units to be on the tank end and have some of the bite of a glass cannon (only against glass cannons) by using a brave weapon. On enemy phase they can rely on a big bonfire to try to get through their attackers. It gives up a bit on both phases to score some faux OHKOs on real glass cannons; the bonfire probably still has enough explosiveness to get through a lot of duelists on a QR double. It won't work against units which are committed to tanking, though, because the brave weapon just doesn't hit hard enough and the bonfire won't be enough to bomb through 40+ def.

So let me try to make a new triangle or web. Generalists, whether fast tanks or brave weapon slow tanks, will lose to committed slow-tank bold fighters. Bold fighters will lose to hyper-aggressive units. Hyper-aggressive units lose to well-built fast tanks and brave weapons, i.e. generalists.

Bold fighter is shit when used against a player that knows how to handle it. it becomes a free win extremely easily.

Wary is the best fighter skill, it makes bold and vengeful useless, and detrimental when the player knows what they're doing.

Bold fighter is a meme skill, like moon bow and fury.

Bold fighter Zelgius useless against wary fighter?

they cancel each other out, resulting in a speed check.

Yes, and most wary fighters have pretty bad spd so he's going to black luna them.