Is there any other mages who can use the special spiral AOE combo besides Ophelia, Lewyn and Lilina.
every mages can use it.
you name a mage, put heavy/flashing blade then you're ready.
even non mages can actually use it.
reason why ophelia, lewyn is a good choice, because ophelia can fire it on turn 1.
and lewyn actually come with spiral, so just use him instead of foddering him off.
for lilina, actually any mage will work just like her.
for example this one will work.
so what you want to put then ?
AOE is all about atk.
I am surprised that you never see a -spd lilina using LnD.
and it's 2 atk for fenrir and bolganone.
It's pretty much a weak version of lilina, but it does work.
she will kill almost everyone with it.
it's pretty much became a template for AoE build with LnD, Spiral, and any blade.
you can even use stuff like this
The issue is that you won't be able to shoot the first one that well.
She dies to pretty much anything, so she can only charge the first special after 2 fights or 1 with enough infantry pulse.
Allowing her to have her def/res to be able to get into range safer might help.
Fury is a good option for this. At the cost of 2 atk, she has 8 more def/res.
I didn't know that fenrir got 2. The more you know.
same goes for lilina.
she dies to everything she doesnt 1 shot.
she only does 9 damage more than sophia.
and you are going to let her fight what cant counter her on 1st fight anyway.
fury is only an option if you gonna put her on AR def team.
I dont see a single reason to use fury over LnD on player's hand.
and AR def team, pretty much gonna have enough pulses to make her shot her special right off the bat.
Here's the thing.
Lilina's best build isn't AoE
It's glimmer. You know why?
Because with 2 pulses she's able to shoot off massive glimmer bombs all the time.
With an AoE and no -cd on the weapon, you'd need 4 pulses. 3 infantry and 1 quickend. Exept you can't, since you need the heavy blade to get it down to 0 every time.
Also, no reason to use fury? 8 def/res?
It's never a bad thing if a unit hase more than one role. With Fury, AoE could work, since Sophia would be able to bait a unit > get the special.
But with L&D, the doubles she could take with the 8 def/res become lethal.
the problem is we are talking about the aoe build, not what best build for lilina.
the thread asked which mages can use spiral AoE build.
while lilina is good with glimmer, her AoE build is not even inferior to those, expecially on PvE map like GHB where you have infinite amount of enemy.
you can just lilina'd them all to 1 HP, then put a DC vantage user to clean them all.
you need 2 pulses, then go fight a random nonDC user for the first fight.
she will be able to bait most of the green mages.
she can even tank lewyn off his wave.
if that 8def/res are so important for you, then go for it.
I believe I can just easily pick an opponent for her to charge her specials easily.
Still, an AoE build for Lilina..
That means her tome's deathblow is useless.
That restriction that you can't use the AoE before a fight is just annoying.
I don't think it's really worth doing on it's own.
That's why I surgest fury, it allows her to do something else. Baiting.
For just a small 2 atk.
I would much prefer to use the AoE on a unit like Leon or Jamke, using a slaying bow.
They could accually use the Speed from L&D to avoid doubles.
As could a unit like Mae.
deathblow is never useless.
do you see those new flying mages with 42 res and 60 HP ?
in almost every game mode, aside from arena, a single fight is nothing.
you cant even use mages in arena because of their score.
and in AA, you can just use them with dancer, go smack something, dance then they will murder everything.
people above even mention about lewyn built in 100% desperation for his AoE build without pulses.
2 atk looks small for you, but this is different from double.
you want every single atk you can get, because for example you dont want to do 44 damage to someone with 46HP, just because you are going to have 8def/res.
and as I said, you can bait any WTD mages perfectly fine, because how high your atk is, you are going to 1shot them on counterattack.
spd is useless on this build.
they wont get double at all, they will kill them before the enemy do anything.
and of course, it's your job as a player to choose their enemy.
Reinhardt cannot kill fae or raven tome TA cecilia, yet he is still feared and always get complained by most people, why ? because he can still remove most of the cast.
just like this kind of aoe build.
they do have their downside, but they are pretty powerful.
Alright, I give you that the idea for this build isn't too bad.
The pure attack and F everything else can work if you plan on not getting hit.
It does mean you need someone else for the ranged baiting.
But.
Sophia is still a bad choice for it. 33 atk on base, while Lilina has 37. That 4 just means there's no reason to use Sophia.
Still, I know the topic is AoE, but I would never go to Lilina for that. Seeing how she does do glimmer so much better.
If you want Sophia to stand out and have a reason for using
AoE special spiral, you can't focus everything on atk.
In my mind, the key to ease of use is the slaying effect. With it, not only can you charge it on turn one, you also free up the seal slot for something like +3 atk.
Shame there's no mage as 4* like that.
But Leon and Jamke are two are easy to get and have slayer.
sophia is an example.
of course lilina is the better choice, because of her higher atk, if you only see about the unit statistics.
not everyone play this game like you or me, who just gonna get who the heck have the better stats, then build it like that.
there's also people who like unit like OG henry, and uses him on like every single gamemode, despite how broken his parameter is.
I just give him an example that every mage that have good atk stats can use special spiral aoe combo.
+atk raigh, with his 35 atk, will also work.
+atk Fmorgan, with her 37 atk, will work, etc,etc.
yes, slaying effect work great, if you have pitiful stats, which cant proc either flashing blade or heavy blade.
if you can though, I would prefer f/h blade over slaying effect, then use other weapon, for example a wodao like effect, to increase the aoe damage lethality.
and I dont know why do you think slaying archer >> H/FBlade mage with aoe specials.
do you think that an extra 3 atk is that important, when you are targeting an average of 30 def on most unit, when you can just target their pitiful average 20 res ?
Says the guy wanting to use L&D and drop all other stats just for a little 2 atk.
I like using niche units, but I disagree with making them a lesser version of another unit. If you're gonna build Sophia for AoE (which is already not ideal), you better make her differend from an AoE Lilina.
You wouldn't build Henry with a bladetome, you give him owl to make use out of his bulk.
I don't think either of you are wrong. Vergessen is just showing what I stated more generally after him, that any mage with high atk can pull it off. You're talking about whether it's good to do it, which is beyond what he was trying to establish, and as far as I can tell he actually agrees with you that this is not the best way to use Sophia.
alright, you are really out of context.
we are comparing 2atk on A slot, and 3 atk on seal slot.
now, if you are going to use physical unit other than bow, you are going to compare it when you use a slaying effect and atk+3, or just use a wodao effect with h/f blade.
next thing is that you compared a slaying +3atk on an archer vs a h/fblade mage.
of course mage will do more damage most of the time, because most unit have less res than def.
and if an archer gonna have the wodao bow, then that bow probably gonna work better for them.
the advantage of slaying effect, is only that you can precharge them with QP easier.
idk why do you think that giving her 8def/res gonna make her different from lilina.
you are trying to force a pure PP build into EP build, with the cost of lessening her PP potential.
when they are going to EP once for the entire battle.
normally you wouldnt, but if you want, it can work.
bladetome gonna let him one shot the weaker unit anyway.
As I stated as response to seeker, my way of thinking might have been somewhat off the mark, especially because the topic was 'can you do it' not 'should you do it'.
I'll also give that mages probably do more damage with AoE than archers.
Point with Sophia is that it wouldn't be a pure player phase build. The difference it would make, is that she still can bait like normal builds would allow her. Giving her something else to do besides AoE blasting.
So what would allow it to be differend from Lilina? The ability to take a hit from an archer or mage.
But I do agree that she can go pure AoE.
But if the question is 'should she' then I'd say 'no'.
Theoretically, any mage with high atk is good with it (Ophelia, for example, has kind of average speed compared to other blue infantry mages because Linde has +5 on her weapon and Ishtar has +6) and any fast blue mage with any of def, res, or atk can be good with it (because juicy wave + spiral + bonfire/iceberg/draconic aura). Just don't use a blade tome with it on a slow mage because 2CD specials become 3CD.
Juicy wave just has built-in vantage, you can substitute but you wont have the "counter-attack first" effect
The only reason not to use a blade tome is that it increases special cooldown by 1
Ophelia's tome has two parts that make it good for her. It reduces special cooldown by 1 (so an aoe special, like blazing wind or whatever, goes from being 4 CD to being 3), and it jump starts her special on turn 1 based on how many mages are on her team. So ophelia +2 other mages and AoE special is ready to fire turn 1. Normally you see her with the quickened pulse seal, reducing the requirement to just +1 other mage on the team.
The jump starting part can really only be reproduced with infantry pulse. Meaning you'd need 2 other infantry units with > HP than your ophelia substitue and that skill equipped. Its clunky. I've seen it done though.
As far as I know, no inheritable tomes exist that reduce cooldown. You can sort of get the same effect by using either a heavy or flashing blade seal (or the actual A slot skills, though I'd recommend the seals). Goes like: "special activates, does a crap ton of damage, unit attacks, hopefully 1 shots, +1 special charge from attack becomes +2 assuming condition of seal was met, combat ends, special spiral gives additional +2 charge, special is ready to go again"
Its not "as good" as ophelia because of the condition of needing higher attack or speed for the seal to activate, but if you dont have access to ophelia and really want a 1-shot mage its the next best thing
Yeah you could just use a special with lower cooldown. You could even just use moonbow/glimmer/whatever and a blade tome if you wanted. The AoE special tho, is what gives the "1-shot build" gas, not because of the AoE part, but because it does a monsterous amount of damage, that ignores the weapon triangle, before combat starts. Honestly, if you arent going to do a 1-shot build, imo its best to just keep it on lewyn. His tome is one of the best in the game (it just doesnt have quite the same crazy synergy with spiral that ophelia's does)
Any mage with high atk can use any non-blade tome.
Fast mages with only 30-ish atk like LA Lyn might want juicy wave if they can't take counterattacks. Looking at the heroes page, it's mainly B.Caeda and bunny Lucina. It works on higher attack mages too such as Tailtiu if for any reason you don't want to play the blade tome on her (ex: emblem buffs are more powerful). Kliff would prefer his prf because he'll just tank the counterattack and glacies the living daylights out of them.
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