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-spd on Kliff

Could be considered follow-up to the discussion on Kliff's preference for atk IV, but this time I write much shorter because the argument is simpler. I want to show that -spd is not optimal but highly viable.

39 spd with weapon effect, and -spd means no -res so he can spd ploy to get himself virtually up to 44. Fast mages don't have 34 res even if they use fury and have a bunch of merges, especially not the ones released in the last 6 months. Now, use QR. He doesn't get doubled, and he will double back. No -atk and adding res ploy means he will generally beat his speedy opponent without a special, so if infantry flash doesn't go off, for example, doesn't matter that iceberg doesn't activate.

Needless to say, 39-44 spd is fine for fighting the majority of DC units, especially the ones that are highly meta, so once he loses his QR he can still fight them. Plus, with 39 mixed defenses, it's not even a given that one hit will knock him out of QR's HP range.

QR isn't such a bad idea even on neutral spd (but he comes with chill spd which is also pretty good for the same purpose). Spd ploy can get him up to 47 virtual spd, which isn't enough for natural doubles against highly merged fast mages. Even 49 (chill spd) doesn't necessarily do it, especially if inflated stats are involved.

So -spd cuts out his player phase potential against fast units, which was maybe a bit marginal on neutral spd anyways, but he can still take fast ranged units on enemy phase and he can still attack most melee tanks, DC or not, which means -spd is actually not as bad as it sounds.

Agree? Disagree?

Also, everybody who's recommending -atk on him, I haven't heard a convincing reply to https://fireemblem.gamepress.gg/q-a/lets-discuss-kliffs-atk-iv-preference
Nobody's demonstrated that it's worth the risk of letting an opponent survive with a fully-charged iceberg or glacies, possibly with vantage.

Asked by Seeker2 months 1 week ago
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Answers

I would really recommend against it for a few good reasons unless you only want him to avoid doubles.

1. This really hinders him running or having Flash support. He's one of those characters I think benefits having his special cooldown speed up more than others. There isn't any other way for him to even dream of getting this effect on people.

2. His player phase will be hindered greatly even on neutral especially if you want to keep chill speed. Him with chill speed active along with his tome will even double Karla. Therefore, adding on QR would kind of be a waste for his potential. If using him only outside of arena I think it may be better because of those inflated stats you mention.

3. After running some calcs on him I realized that a speed bane actually gives him the worst MU spread out of all of the banes you could get. This is because you fail to kill strong sword lords (his main thing he NEEDS to kill) and fast mages become a bigger problem) If you buff up his speed by 6 consistently it won't be a problem. You also tend to struggle against people you can't activate your tome on even more as you have a huge potential of being doubles by them and you don't get the boost to defenses. It sounds like a bane may work if you plan to buff it with speed wave but even then his potential becomes limited.
3.He can actually player phase blue and red armored units before they even get their special off. To beat B!Hector with DD3, you need to have a res ploy, +6 buff, neutral attack, and your weapon activate. The fact that he can do this is scary. Same thing beats Nowi ofc. And you don't even need all of those factors to beat L!Tiki.

As for a B slot whenever I run the calcs his best B slot becomes Guard fairly easily. Though if you want to play around a team keeping Chill Speed isn't a bad idea. He starts to destroy some greens in the process and Armored units find it hard to face off against him. His speed if you run either a +6 buff or a debuff becomes unmatched outside of the enemies having some kind of buff so I think it should be entirely left alone and he has no NEED to put a boon there. The calcs tell me it's over kill.

With all this said and all of his MU's in including some of the other less common ones, I finally have figured out his best ivs when including buffs. +Res/+Def -HP. He's able to kill the most and strongest opponents with this iv spread, and survive the best. That's because he is either able to kill someone before their special activates, or guard blocks it off entirely. However, -Atk is a good choice for a second bane if you don't have a -HP one.

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I'll take this a bit at a time.

1. At first thought, this is maybe the biggest issue with -spd, but it's maybe ok if he wins against fast mages without a special. Flash will still activate against slow tanks, and his anti-mage matchups were pretty bad anyways.

2. Feel like I'm not thinking too clearly right now, but you make a good case for keeping chill spd on neutral spd. Enemy units would need 45 spd to avoid getting doubled if they get chilled (which is very likely if they have 45 spd). Here's my reservation:
Ayra +spd with slaying edge+spd and spd seal has 46 with no merges
Karla +spd with 1 merge or fury has 45+.
Lon'qu with fury, double L&D, or 1 merge has 45+.

And when I said inflated stats I meant GC, because in PvE most units don't have 40+ spd.

3. Are we talking brave weapons here? His matchups against anti-mages were shaky without -spd, and I think he probably ploys most brave weapons which gives him 39 virtual spd so he probably doesn't get hit by a quad.

4. vs DC: the only relevant matchup I see here is L.Tiki, and he might double just with tome effect and spd ploy. spd bane doesn't change things against the others. Fast Nowi needs merges if she wants to keep up with him (assuming spd ploy), but then the tome effect activates. L.Tiki is quite fast but if chill spd doesn't hit he can probably activate spd ploy (even if her C-skill activates) unless inflated stats, and with the tome effect I believe it's sufficient.

And might I point out that it's not easy to give him a +6 spd buff. He's an infantry unit, and spd tactic is currently available on one legendary hero who's about to receive her first rerun. Rally spd/def+ is...a dubious fodder option except for arena scoring purposes...

So let's say the maximum buff is +4. What's your recommendation, +res or +spd?

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I still Reccomend +Res because of the new skill he adds to the pool. +Speed really only checks on few sword lords you probably already beat. Arya/Karla you can take the first hit and retaliate if you run Guard, and Mia you can player phase kill with Res Ploy. I actually suggest you run other buffs over Speed because he already denies everyone a double on him. It's mostly a question of whether or not he doubles you. The only people who he doesn't are people he can take a hit from on the enemy phase.

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Ok, I see what you're going for. It's still dangerous vs typical Ayra because the wrath charge doesn't care about your guard, but he should be able to survive. The more dangerous part is stuff like WoM singers/dancers or too much other stuff happening on the battlefield around him to trade hits leisurely over three rounds

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