GamePress

PSA for the FEH msg board community

I'm reposting these posts I had with Master Salt earlier this morning on a thread someone made asking if a +atk -res Lilina was good enough to merge. Right now that thread is already drowned out with the incoming traffic of similar questions about ivs and what they should do with themselves.. Im guessing only a few people got to see this because obviously more than 50% of the topics here are about ivs, pushing down the few good topics I saw here like comparing (Wahlmart? Wahlhart?) to Frederick, thoughts on the Askr trios' refinements, or the upcoming ugly changes to the requirements in tier 20 Arena. I hope others will get the idea there's a lot more to this FEH gamepress site besides the msg boards that is all found in the extensive work the moderators put into researching these units. You can call me a dick, whatever, but hopefully this will kinda thin out the redundant questions that has been plaguing the q&a/ msg boards and allow more interesting topics and discussions to be seen

Asked by DISTANT COUNTER5 months 1 week ago

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by DISTANT COUNTER 8 hours 23 min ago
Honestly, I know you guys are being nice to some of these people who ask stuff like this but its like we're dumbing them down and not letting them figure things out for themselves. I don't get why people ask "if this iv is good or not" or "oh what do I do how should I build them" when this website has a huge index of all the units with extensive analyses right on each page. I may not agree with some of the builds the moderators suggest but they do have pretty thorough guides of every hero that is being released. All you have to do is type in the unit's name in question in the search bar, and bam, a long page with an iv chart, optimal iv suggstions, unit's weapon and skill analysis pros and cons about the unit, team ups and counters list... all there. When I started playing last year I had no idea what I was doing but I read a lot of the guides here about the units and got a basic idea about what works and what doesn't also from trying things out with the unit. I don't understand why someone would ask how to build a unit when the whole fun of it is in building a unit the way you want and seeing what works instead of having someone hold your hand through it

This is part of the reason I post bullshit builds when I see questions asking what they should do with this or that iv

by Master NaCl 8 hours 6 min ago
In reply to (No subject) by DISTANT COUNTER
There is a lot of merit to what you are saying, and I do think that a lot of the fun in this game is to figure out how to build the units yourself. However, I really don't think its such a bad thing that a lot of people ask whether "X unit has usable IVs" or if "Y unit should be built a certain way" because it opens up a possibility for discussion and learning.

Don't take my word for 100% truth, but I think what happens is that they read the analysis on the site, then get confused or frustrated that they don't have the optimal IVs, all of the required skills to make the "optimal performance" unit, etc. They might not know what to do from there, so they come to the Q&A section and ask for our thoughts, comments, and advice so that they can figure out how they can best make use of their unit--whether it would be to try a unique build on them, or perhaps fodder them off to a better unit, or something else entirely. In doing so, they learn more about the game from how other's play and understand the game--hopefully apply some of that knowledge in the future--, and I don't really see the harm in that.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts on it, and you can feel free to disagree if you want to.

by DISTANT COUNTER 7 hours 40 min ago
In reply to (No subject) by Master NaCl
I don't disagree with what you said, that was a totally reasonable explanation. I just can't help but get the feeling the same people that have been asking about their ivs rush back here and throw up the same shit posts on the q&a that flood the wall pushing the good discussion posts down into next page history oblivion every 15 mins hahah

But yea man, I don't think what you guys are doing is wrong, I just felt like saying what was on my mind after seeing the 30th same question of the day on here. I may sound mean but I just hope some people who do this realize this site has a lot of content besides the q&a.

I'll still be posting bullshit builds to bust their balls though

by DISTANT COUNTER 7 hours 11 min ago
In reply to (No subject) by Master NaCl
Also as an example right now.. 3 or 4 newer threads above this Lilina one on the q&a wall, TrashMan posted "Tiki question".. go into his profile and look at his question history. Ok he doesn't have too much but he has a decent amount but his first question post dates back to 8 months ago.. then look at the titles of his other posts.. ivs.. you can see some regulars giving sound advice but no response from this guy.. and he keeps coming back to do it all over again like a monkey.. im gonna check the histories of other users who ask this kinda stuff

I've been asking myself the question, "suppose they're just really good at calculating the way units can move and interact on the map and bad at designing builds in the first place?" but I don't think this line holds. Ever since SI was a thing, figuring out how to build units is a very important skill for a player, and I think you've found here a good solution, which I recommend to all the regulars on this board. If the same person keeps coming back with "what do I do with this IV" and shows no evidence of having considered carefully what's on that character's page, searched what other questions have been asked about the same character, tried to map out a build himself/herself, let's just tell them to do their homework. We're not doing anyone a favour by helping them get out of the challenge of building, or, if they're experienced enough, working with difficult IVs. There is a potential for a higher level of discussion in this section. Let's pursue it.

For repeat offenders, we should make some meme and throw it at them. Something like
"We've told you once.
(some kind of smirk)
Do your homework."

Just give them a Ephraim "Disgusting".

I think this suites better..

The face represents how much they thought about it.

That must of been a very long time.

Yes. And my favorite, bullshit builds 🚽

Seeker, im down for it man

I think we should all agree on the fact if someone posts a question that is similar to another question that was posted earlier, we shall spam their comment section with 'disgusting' memes, or is that a pisstake?

I'm going to do my best to give the most optimal builds to fit up their shit ivs

Good luck with that, im just going to drop 'Disgusting' Memes everywhere.

ly good.

Don't do it if they're new. Innocent newcomers don't deserve that. We'll point them to the resources, and if they refuse to do their homework, then we'll warn them about the issue the Q&A section has been having before throwing the memes at them.

Ok thats reasonable, just check if they have a history of repeating it first

I'm going to disrupt the chain of reposted messages now. Both sides of this argument (it's not really an argument tho, more just a discussion) are completely right.

This is a q&a section most of all and like it or not, people will ask all these questions, because there are people that are able and willing to answer them. If they got no reply from the community, they would probably have to check the hero pages manually, but then again, it would be kind of defeating the purpose of the whole q&a thing.

On the other hand tho, I agree that those questions are mundane as all hell and that we see a whole wall of IV questions about the same units over and over again (hello summer young tiki), especially when 80% of these questions or problems can be resolved just with a glance at the respective hero page.

The solution is pretty unclear, if there is any.

This is why i dont bother with IV questions now, some people cant look up past posts :/

You didnt disrupt it, that was the last of the posts, thanks. Good answer. Yea... I dont really think there is a resolve to this.. its more of just wishful thinking/ ranting 🤗

Pretty much. I've had this discussion with another user before on how it seems like people really aren't thinking for themselves when their units don't have the BEST IVs, and it's getting to the point to where I'm seeing more and more questions on what to do for units that have perfectly fine IVs, like neutral.

I don't mind helping people, but these types of questions become really common on banners with seasonals. I just feel like if people actually took a second to really think about the possibilities of a unit, then they wouldn't have such an issue trying to find a use. I truly do not understand why people ask what to do with a "bad IV" S!Linde when her main purpose in life, like most dagger units, is to debuff the enemy, and they can even buff allies if using Smoke Dagger, or Peshkatz (Sothe only though).

I'm not saying I'm the most experienced person when it comes to this game, but I do think people should actually THINK about their units first before doing these classic...

>Pulls for a unit
>Gets excited it's a good character
>Sees the IVs aren't perfect
>Immediately goes to the Q&A to ask what to do.

It's really frustrating, lol.

People want other "experienced" people to tell how this unit should be built so they wont waste time. Wasn't this game suppose to waste time lol !?!

Reminds me of how people get into RPG's and immediately start looking up the best builds for the class they picked.

That analogy is spot on. They might even check the "best class" guide before even starting the game.

Is that a bad thing though? I know when I got back into wow I did exactly that and settled on. Speccing into a Retribution Paladin because it fit my play style returning to the game after a couple of years, or I built a frost mage on skyrim on a recommendation from a friend to a guide that laid out how to do so... after my first play through of course
Point being is there something wrong with that? Is there something wrong with asking what is by all means a simple question?

If a friend recommended something for you and you want to try it out, then fine. But getting into a game and two seconds after starting, you're already Googling the best class for end game, then it's pretty evident that you're not fully invested into the game and is, essentially, defeating the whole purpose of creating/picking your own character/class.

Being a BIT independent is not gonna hurt anyone in this game, so coming to the Q&A without even TRYING to think of something is one of my issues.

I dunno man, I know when I learned how to play dark souls the first thing I did was create a character and immediately went to the web and said how on earth do I get gud and they said looooool try again, so I created a new character and respecced to fit how I wanted to play in the late game, while for most people games with high skill floors like the souls series are much harder than a FeH style game, it doesnt mean that people don't have an interest in a laid back style, or even who this is their first Fire emblem and this idea of building a unit is a bit disingenuous to OG fireemblem, and even to newer ones to an extent

Just pointing towards the argument about searching for 'best class' when starting a game. I agree with edo5990. Not every player has to fully invest into every single game to enjoy it. I play games because I dont have to fully invest into it unlike studies or jobs. I can actually enjoy it the way I want, and if it is to take a shortcut route and not enjoy every bit the game has to offer, so be it.

I meant "fully invest" as in actually enjoy the game for what it is.

Not fully invest as in spend hundreds of hours because it's a job, lol.

Tbh, I really meant it as not to fully enjoy the game as they had to offer. I am too impatient to figure things out slowly and often search for builds when I just started the game. With those recommendations, I even planned my summonning for FEH to quickly rush to T20 when I just started the game like 4/5 months ago. It is not a good thing for gamers, but I just felt unfair to be criticesed for not being a proper 'gamer', I just want to take a break in the way I want. Though this discussion branches off from the original question and was unnecessarily dragged on from a mere analogy lol, sorry for overreacting.

I mean, I disagree with your approach, but we are all free to play games in whichever way we enjoy them the most, since the point of games is to have a good time and enjoy them (a crazy thought, huh?).

My approach to games has always been to go in blind or at least with as little help or guidance as possible, in order to get to the end by myself. I picked up the enjoyment from it back when I first booted up FF VII on playstation (a highly questionable choice for a first videogaming experience btw) and it stayed with me to this day.

Oh, it's definitely no problem of yours, and I probably shouldn't have generalized the way I did so something like this wouldn't have happened. I just find it weird how someone would get into a game, and then immediately starts looking up "Best class in 'x' game [insert year here]" instead of actually playing the game and enjoying it. I understand wanting to look up a guide to get the general gist of what you're looking for, but to follow a guide word for word instead of actually attempting to play is, I guess, more of a pet peeve of mine.

Since the others aren't giving you much credit, I want to offer some support for this more laid back attitude toward the game. However, I think it's fair to expect the rule to hold that if you put only a little in, you get only a little back. So if people want to go real easy on this game, it's not wrong, but they shouldn't expect spectacular results.

I'm a very casual chess fan; I really enjoy watching some of the world's top players play speed chess (especially on the internet while giving their commentary, for example, chess24 is a website which offers recordings of precisely this on YouTube). I'd love to be able to play half as well as that, but I don't work at it so it's not something I get to enjoy; there's also a lot going on in every game that I won't understand because it's too subtle. Good games are like that (and I'm not saying FEH is an especially great game, but it does have some complexity to it). I put only a little bit in; I get only a little out. If I want more and want it enough, I need to invest my time and energy and a bit of heart and soul. I believe it would be good for everyone to recognize the same and to see that it applies to other games as well, even games less great than chess (such as FEH).

Well said man, everyone too, all good points

I get that not everyone is familiar with FEH and could want some help on trying to make the most out of their units, and I also get that seeing every recommended build offering the most expensive skills can be really disheartening when starting off and trying to get your footing when the game has already been out for over a year. I've experienced this. In fact, I experienced it so much that it got to the point to where I stopped looking at recommended builds because practically EVERY build was using Distant Counter, Steady Breath, or Swift Sparrow in the A slot.

With that said, I also tried to actually make use of the units I had. If 90% of the builds you're looking at are using skills that you don't have access to, then it's about time you stop looking at other people's builds and start getting your hands dirty to see what you can come up with.

I don't mind seeing a few questions on something like unorthodox builds, but when it's the same question about one of the BEST seasonal units in the game, then it gets increasingly frustrating, especially so when IVs hardly even matter for seasonal units unless you're getting more for merges.

And I probably help those who have no idea how to build a certain unit and how it works, Feh community created builds on Gamepress that were made for a reason..

You're just being Disgustingly nice

Lol, yeah.

YES!!!

I also get a bit irritated when I see people showing off their most recent merge project. Are they posting a question? No. So don't post it in the q&a section.

That's mostly because there really is no way to share what you've created with the community. I'd honestly rather see this than 5-10 people asking "What do I do with this Tiki?!?!?!?" all day every day until a new banner comes up.

It actually has the ability to open up a discussion on how they can better the unit, or use them for a different purpose.

Agreed, like a wrath ninian build i though awhile back XD

I think something that is completely overlooked is the incompleteness of various pages in a variety of ways, like what if an IV doesnt match a recommended build? Or if a bad boon/bane isnt matching, do we ignore it and invest 5 star units into units that wont perform as strongly as they should. Or what if a premium fodder is the only option into for a unit build? Fighter skills are the best example of this, how do you build any of the sets listed on this site without them when the first 3 all have exclusively fighter skills and no other options? Or a -atk +spd unit that is slow? How do you build that? A -def+res Hector? When it's your only one that you've pulled since launch? Are you just giving up or are you looking to arguably the best place to find it???? The way you phrase your whole argument makes it sound like you have an issue with people looking for help which isnt cool, just help or don't. Most threads are active for an hour or so anyways, so why does it matter that questions about starting points move them down. They're one response questions as is

That's a good point, I know what its like to get a bad iv of a unit, it sucks but its not like they are totally unusable. You can always work with what you have. A lot, A LOT of the units/ 5* s ive gotten from the start were not ideal ivs but eventually over time found better ones but in the meanwhile I used the base kit that came with the unit or made a budget build. Its just common sense. I have said I dont completely agree with all the recommended builds here on the unit pages. Of course you're not going to invest expensive skills into it or worry about not having those skills to inherit... I mean what can you do? A person on here will fix it all up for you? You either spend money to get a better iv or skills or just work with the cards that was dealt to you. If you can't take a few minutes to actually read in detail of the skills on the units you have in your barracks to see if any of them have something you could use to help out your unwanted iv unit, then you're just lazy. You're just asking someone to spoon feed you

Guess that applies to me, though I dont think I am a veteran, at least I am average in FEH.

When I asked a question, I admit that 90% of the time I already know the answer that I would get (standard as recommended) so it flooded the Q&A a bit, and I apologise for that. I also know that most of the questions I asked come down to personal preference, own team needs, priorities etc, and it would not get any solid answer. I knew that even before I asked. And yet I did, because I was genuinely conflicted and really needed some second opinions, and hoping to hear some amazing builds that I had not thought of. If there isn't any good build, at least it will strengthen my mind to fodder them off instead. You don't have to click into the thread if you are not interested tho, like how I click yours now instead of the Lilina IV thread.

When you put forward a proposal like this, it tends to 'overkill' and potentially harmed those who genuinely needed some opinions. Please don't discourage the community to do this.

Look, maybe I over generalized the iv question thing and forgot to mention this.. I don't think everyone that asks about iv dilemmas are all idiots. I've seen your posts here and there on the boards here and from what I remember, its obvious you actually "think". You put thought into what you are writing and have real questions/ solutions/ opinions on things related to the game. You're not just asking "what should you do" "how do you do this" while sitting on your thumb. You actually contribute and you look like you take in what advice people are giving here. You really gotta look at the profiles of these people who are doing the opposite with their posts. Look at their question history, I'm not kidding, its mostly pages of iv questions where alot of them don't reply at all dating back to 8 or 9 months. There is a lot of eloquent regulars here that explain things pretty well and you'd think that the user asking for help would at least take in something from what the person giving advice said and think about it, apply it to their next problems with the game. Nope. Nothing. All of their next questions are the same exact shit

Also, I get why my tone is really off putting to new/ lazy users here. I get it. I'm not saying we all have to do this, you guys really can do whatever you want, no one should be telling others what to do here. Im only just another user. This is more really just a rant on my opinion of what's going on here

I glad that you re-posted this discussion that we had. After (literally) sleeping on it for a bit, I just wanted to add on and amend to what I said previously:

I don't disagree at all with what you are saying. It does get very tiring seeing IV posts regarding the same units over and over again, especially when one could literally scroll a few posts down and see the someone else asked for that same exact unit a few moments ago--most notoriously, Sum!Y!Tiki. That, I feel, is really lazy and those are the type of posts that shouldn't be replied to.

At the same time, and I think you and/or someone else covered this earlier, some of these people genuinely feel like they don't know what to do despite reading the character's page and analysis and want some sort of confirmation that what they are doing is a good move that they won't regret later on. There may not be other posts within the past reasonable amount of time that they can find in the Q&A since these posts are only relevant for a few hours at most, so they go on ahead and ask the question. I got that sort of vibe from the Lilina post earlier today, so I felt like I could offer some of my comments on what I thought he should do. While I don't know for sure if he/she learned something from it, but my goal was to give that person some of my knowledge so that the person can understand the game better.

I think the mentality that a lot of people have--admittedly, myself included--is that they only want to settle for the most optimal performance and nothing less. This site really doesn't highlight builds for the less desirable IVs or the more original builds, and that's a shame because not everyone are fortunate enough to obtain perfect IVs and premium fodder. (I don't think the user submitted builds are that great for dealing with sub-optimal IVs or unique builds a lot of the time because they are hidden beneath the recommended IVs and suggested builds, and because some of them don't go into a lot of depth about some of the decisions that are made regarding builds.) So, as a result, the message boards are flooded with these IV questions.

I don't really know the best way to alleviate this problem, but one thing I think that can be changed is that extremely powerful units--the top-tier ones according to this site--or limited units could have a more visible disclaimer saying that these units can still function extremely well despite having bad IVs, then offer some builds that maybe shifts the focus to a more unique way of playing said unit; or, perhaps, they could still stick to the optimal set, but add that, even with -Atk or -Spd or whatever undesirable IVs the person has, the unit can still function well. That way, the people with those sub-optimal units get to understand that bad IVs aren't the worse thing that can happen and start to think more creatively with what they are given.

[Of course, I don't think the regular users really don't have any control over that sort of stuff, so hopefully, someone who does can see this entire thread.]

I think that is a great idea. I remember seeing something like that a little on the analysis for Hardin, under the iv chart they wrote that he could actually perform fairly well with any bane/boon. But I don't think I saw anything like that on the other "top tier" units. Do you or anyone else know any of the moderators here? Has any of them been known to comment on the boards here?