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Olwen: Can she ever really come out from under Reinhardt's shadow?

Last night while trying for Hardin I pulled a +res -hp Olwen (the original blue one). I've never gotten her before, and I'm curious if there are any circumstances under which she'd be preferred over her brother. Like, obviously she can be made viable, she makes a good blade mage and unlike Reinhardt she can use Dire Thunder to quad. But she's still a blue mage nuke on a horse...and thus fills pretty much the exact same niche as Reinhardt. I *like* Reinhardt - I don't use him in the arena but he's gotten me through more PvE content than I could possibly count. I have a hard time imagining how Olwen and her 26 attack could ever be a better choice than him. Even as a blade mage - I had Ursula as a kind of makeshift blade mage for a while, and eventually I stopped using her because Reinhardt was just as effective as a blue mage nuke, and unlike Ursula he didn't need horse buffs just to be able to do his job (he appreciates them, of course, but he doesn't need them in order to be viable). I will grant that Ursula was never fully built and I never even promoted her to 5*, so it's possible I just never got the true, optimal horse blade experience. But even so, I don't really understand why I'd want to run a unit who always needs to be buffed over a unit who can do the same job who doesn't. As a blade mage, Olwen would have to get massively more ORKOs than Reinhardt for me to want to consider using her that way, and I can't really picture that being the case. I'm also just kind of sick of blade mages at this point. (I have two that I like and use and I don't really feel the need to build any more.)

Quad-thunder Olwen is a little more interesting to me, just by virtue of not being a blade mage. But still...with 39 attack (assuming Swift Sparrow since L&D would diminish her res) she'd need her special to do any significant damage. And with 33 res she'd have a decent iceberg, plus be able to run ploys to increase her damage...but is that really enough reason to use her over Reinhardt? If anyone who's used quad Olwen has any input it would be greatly appreciated, or if anyone has other build ideas for Olwen I haven't thought of, I'd love to hear those as well.

Asked by SourPeridot4 months 3 weeks ago

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No, Olwen has unfortunately been made obsolete due to powercreep.

I think her attack is just too low to really make her as good as Reinhardt. Some people prefer her for her quad set, but personally my +2 +Spd Olwen usually does from 0-5 damage even with a bladetome ^^;

"Can she ever really come out from under Reinhardt's shadow?"

Well, she shouldn't be in Reinhardt's shadow because they can do things that he can't, just like he can do things that she can't. She has more than enough speed to actually quad, not to mention running a Bladetome, while Reinhardt has enough attack to just double with Dire Thunder, or enough defense to safely run an Owltome set.

Just because they're the same type of unit doesn't mean that they can be run the same way. I'd pick Olwen over Reinhardt any day.

Obviously she and Reinhardt don't function identically, and they require different builds and setups to succeed, but that's not my point, my point is that ultimately, they both play the same role...they're horses who nuke with blue magic. In this case I don't care how they do it, I'm trying to find out if there is a way Olwen can be made to get more kills than Reinhardt, or else get KOs against significant units that Reinhardt can't deal with, or if there's a build that can be given to her that allows her to fulfill a different role from Reinhardt (eg mage tank, ploy support, etc). Ultimately it doesn't matter if Olwen can quad and Reinhardt can't if Reinhardt still gets more kills and Olwen has no alternative areas to shine.

Edit: I hope this doesn't sound too antagonistic, because I don't mean to imply that no one should use Olwen if she doesn't meet these criteria, just that I personally am not that interested. Obviously people who like Olwen should use her if they want to. And if you're telling me that Olwen is actually the most fun-to-use unit in existence, idk, maybe I should try her out anyway. ;)

"they're horses who nuke with blue magic."

So does that mean that every blue tome cavalier is under Reinhardt's shadow? Every blue tome cavalier unit, excluding him, can have enough speed to actually run a Bladetome set effectively, but they would require Horse buffs to do so.

Reinhardt has a pretty linear play style...
Dire Thunder - Deal as much damage as possible on initiation.
Blarowl - Make use of his decent defense to tank.
None - Don't use him at all.

Those are really the only three things that people do with him, and the Blarowl set is hardly ever used to begin with, encouraging the linear play style even more.

I prefer Reinhardt the least compared to every other Blue Tome Cavalier, and I find that his shadow doesn't really extend very far due to how many people have counters to Lyn + Reinhardt already.

I mean, yeah, honestly, to me pretty much every other blue tome cavalier *is* under Reinhardt's shadow. Maybe I'm just looking at this wrong - personally I don't use horses that much unless it's a horse-specific challenge or I'm trying to cheese a difficult PvE mode with Reinhardt, Brave Lyn, and/or Galeforce Eliwood (aka discount Brave Roy). I don't necessarily like Reinhardt for himself, I like him because he's effective and that's how I think of him and most other horses, "how can they be useful". This is a boring way to play the game and honestly I didn't realize I was doing this with horses until you made me think about it, so thanks. Now I feel like I have to build Olwen just to inject some interest into my horse teams. ;)

Well, when you're looking at "what blue tome cavalier can deal the most damage on initiation without receiving buffs from teammates?" then yeah, Reinhardt will probably be the best bet, but if you're looking at more than just "more damage!!" then it becomes a bit more clear that Reinhardt is not always the best blue tome cavalier in existence.

Reinhardt has pretty bad resistance compared to the others, aside from Spring Catria, and his speed is pretty much ignored aside from him receiving a Hone Cavalry buff, and even then it's still bad since most people prefer speed banes. He has good defense, but unless you're running a building him to make use of his defense stat, then he'd still take a lot of damage and dish out a small amount.

L'Arachel, Olwen, and even Ursula has more than enough resistance, and speed, to be able to make use of. Taking a hit from a mage if need be and deal some damage out with their decent speed stats, whereas Reinhardt would take a lot of damage due to both his low speed and his low resistance.

More damage? Go ahead and take the classic Dire Thunder Reinhardt, but if you're wanting a bit more, like someone that can take a hit or two from mages, then Reinhardt is probably not the unit you'd want to have with you.

Wow, this is giving me a lot to think about, thank you. And thanks for helping me realize how little love and interest I've been putting into my horse teams, I will try to rectify this in the future. ;)

What I'm noticing is a different way of thinking about roles. SourPeridot associates cavalry blue tome with nuking only; you think more in terms of what types of enemies a unit is designed to fight and who initiates.

Olwen with blade tome might be better in weapon triangle disadvantage because blade tome bonuses ignore weapon triangle. If your team is B.Lyn + Olwen + cavalry tank + dancer, for instance, she does better against some axe with massive def and enough res to survive Reinhardt (that Muspellian jailer wielding Byleistr, for instance - I forget his name - or Surtr himself once at the end of ch 10, or even a generic axe armour with 60HP and 20 res, or Sheena, who might well use DC and give a horse team problems in AA). Olwen can also get through some enemies using guard who Reinhardt would get through if not for guard (base kit F.Morgan, for example) because blade tomes depend more on raw firepower.

How about a Blarserpent build? She has more Res than Reinhardt, and the same Res as Ursula, at neutral IV. Sure, it's expensive, but she can run it well with more investment.

That is a really cool idea, especially since my Olwen is +res. Wish I had F!Morgan now. :(

Her real competition is spring catria (ofc spring catria isn't as accessible as the reinhardt)

I'm guessing her blade tome build can kill units reinhardt would fail against in some corner cases (extreme res or desperation active). It's possible though that her atk is just too bad, but idk. She can get +24 with a bladetome

Thanks for offering us this chance to discuss.

The first reason I want Olwen is because AA only allows each unit once, so if you start seeing too much DC+slaying edge Ayra and your swordbreaker mages can't take the wrath Regnal Astra, Olwen can solve the problem because she's blue and Ayra's res is quite low.

Olwen is also excellent with a blade tome, especially if you don't have S.Catria. 24 bonus damage is definitely sufficient to cover her low atk.

If you can get her to quad consistently, quantity will make up for the quality.

The main reason Olwen is in her brother's shadow as a unit is due to the fact that she's stuck at 5 Stars. From the start, Reinhardt was really easy to get, resulting in his omnipresence.