Eirika+10, +atk -HP, Sieglinde+eff, no other skills, receiving four tactics and then redoubling them through an ally:
46HP, 62/51/42/44
Soleil+10, +spd -HP, slaying edge or wo dao+spd, receiving four tactics:
43HP, 60/51/38/34
M.Corrin+10, +spd -HP, Yato+eff, receiving four tactics:
45HP, 60/47/40/36
M.Corrin is slightly slower but also slightly bulkier than Soleil. I'm going to guess it's not a trade-off he likes, especially for being in that spd zone, so he could even consider ditching the spd and just taking the res superboon or more atk and stick it harder to units that he can still double. In either case, 16 stats to an ally should be plenty of compensation for the few matchups he would fail to win compared to Soleil.
M.Corrin is a few points behind Eirika in all stats, most notably res. The spd might or might not be decisive, because 51 can actually natural-double some fast +10 units who end up somewhere around 45 spd. Those matchups might be quite rare, depending on team composition. I'm guessing that the 16 stats to his ally support will make enough difference to justify having slightly lower stats himself.
Your thoughts?
Oof my queen continues to reign strong
But that’s how Eirika and M!Corrin are supposed to be different; Corrin is supposed to support his allies, while Eirika is much more suited to succ support out of her allies. I suppose if you were to put them both on a Tactics team they would really shine
umm, you're taking a very niche skill like Corrin's which while good, you're kinda overvaluing it. It requires you to specifically run him with a specfic unit which may or may not be in your best interest during said fight, so you lost some points there for me. Ontop of that Soleil will generally win her fights, while if Corrin fails to do so, it will cost you more than a simple reposition, etc, since in arena or top tier gamemodes, each kill counts.
And Eirika is stronger given the right buffs, otherwise they stand on similar footing, with Eirika having more since she ports constant buffs for any character, while Corrin needs to be beside his support buddy.
I don't agree with the idea that his niche skill gives him a potential edge over Soleil (listen, I like niche but then there's Corrin, which requires alot of time investment). I do agree with your assessment regarding Eirika however, as she is very strong, but under those specific circumstances.
Now if it comes down to suppor (since you mention Corrin's niche skill and Eirika's buff) Soleil loses out because of the obvious. However, Corrin wins out assuming you have alot of investment and Eirika simply needs a good team comp with tactics.
TLDR I disagree with your statement overall. The topic itself is trying to compare a super niche suport unit (Corn boy), a much easier to use buff girl (Eirika), and a full offense unit (Soleil). If you're looking for better, consistent offense go for Soleil, if you want buffs ditch both the other two and go for Marth since his buffs are invisible. Simple as that.
Fair points; I see the matter a little differently
- M.Corrin's buff is only as niche as the unit receiving it. If you apply it to someone like Eirika or L.Marth who can really exploit all four stats and destroy just about everything, I don't think that's very niche.
- If I told you that I had a +10 unit with 62/51/42/44 when fully buffed, would you think "good for a support unit?" I'd be looking to destroy people with those stats, not focus on support.
I think what you missed is that I'm not thinking of Eirika or M.Corrin as support units. I'm looking more at their ability to wreck people, and support potential is either to compensate for weaker combat potential or to serve as a tiebreaking consideration if two turned out to be quite equal.
Thanks for a well-argued viewpoint. I'd appreciate if you would follow up.
Hmm k then, but if you're looking to compare offensive capabilities then you needn't mention the support capabilities as a way to surpass the differences between Eirika and Soleil as you did in both arguments, stating that the 16 in stats would be worth it for the lacking in stats or offenses, etc
Furthermore, having a fully built +10 unit with tactics is a optimal situation and will not always be possible, and though I always advocate for buffs, it's good to know your capabilities compared to other such units in your base stat points and at +10 without buffs, since you can't rely on buffs 24/7 (my same argument stands for any unit that can only work with buffs and can't self apply, like most bladetomes save for Odin, who knew I'd be saying that)
Also, I don't get that initial argument. Corrin's buff is only as niche as the unit receiving it. I don't meant to repeat this but, Corrin needs to get an Ally Support with said unit. And though it is possible, not everyone is willing to invest into Corrin, and his partner along with skillsets that would support each other. When you could easily merge up a Marth who just applies buffs akin to that of Corrin's for everybody in his vicinity without needing a prior restriction like Ally Support. Hell, here are Marth (generic) and MCorrin's stats side by side with buffs and look at the similarities.
HP/ATK/SPD/DEF/RES for +Spd-Hp M!Corrin and Marth respectively (5*+10 with tactic buffs and their special refines)
Corrin
45/60/47/40/36
Marth
44/57/47/39/33
If we look at the stats the way you have, Marth looses out a bit in the res, atk and hp department but this means that his buff edges out on Corrin's according to your argument, no? They're easier to procc and effective with anyone and everyone...
Joking aside, Marth is not better at offenses but is better on support as seen stat wise, however we shouldn't mention support capabilities when comparing a units offensive prowess (my entire point)
TLDR
If you want to compare offenses, do so without interlacing support capabilities into the mix. Furthermore, full buff sets though optimal are not always possible due to oppresive movement restrictions in most gamemodes among other problems. And furthermore, Corrin's buffs aren't as good as you make them out to be if we talk about them directly. Marth can do the same if not better with and it works for all units in his team not only his support partner.
Well, for one, I think you just convinced me never to merge M.Corrin unless he gets some upgrade or Marth gets nerfed. Haha
I was indeed comparing combat potential, and my conclusion was that Eirika is straight up better in every aspect (except maybe not killing someone before she can double them if you're looking for a galeforce activation or something, but that's so specific). The second part was that maybe the difference is small enough that the potential of M.Corrin + ally support might exceed that of Eirika + ally support. That's the premise of my argument for M.Corrin being stronger than Eirika.
To clarify the M.Corrin niche or not niche thing: if Marth buffs everyone up and they destroy the enemy as a team, great. If M.Corrin buffs up one unit and that unit becomes OP and wipes the enemy team, that's approximately the same result. However, to pull that off you would need a unit that isn't very niche, such as an Eirika copying everybody's tactics buffs. If the Yato buff goes to a very niche unit, say, Jagen, then in effect (i.e. practically speaking) Yato has become extremely niche, but if it goes to someone like +spd special fighter Berkut's lance DC W.Robin or some generalist build of Nowi, the 16 stats get applied across a very wide spectrum of opponents including colour-disadvantage matchups, and so it isn't especially niche.
I'm of a strong belief that Eirika is better than Corrin when she has a Speed boon. Sure, she trades off 4 attack, but she isn't missing out on oneshotting anyone she couldn't before; however, this may affect her matchup against some slow tanky blues, but she shouldn't be dealing with them anyway. I also think that if you're running Corrin for the purpose as an entirely offensive character, then it's better to have a Spd refine on the Yato, and a Res bane, but I'll continue this response with the one you've mentioned.
First off, Eirika's speed has a greater impact when you combine it with Flashing Blade, which allows her to use Iceberg every combat, almost surely killing her opponent, this leads into my next point: her Resistance is so monstrously high that she can handle dragons and mages without taking too much damage; whereas, Corrin might die or come close enough to death that he can't survive another hit. This is because he has 8 less resistance, and 7 less speed (this matters less for dragons and more for mages, but he should be avoiding those).
With saying all of this, there is more than just one elephant in the room. The somewhat new Legendary Marth and Lucina are pretty relevant in this discussion. First off, a +Spd -Res Marth's statline looks a little like this:
40HP, 62/54/44/30
Now let me point something out: this is an unmerged Marth.
With +10 merges, there is no doubt that he is better than Corrin, but he's not exactly as easy summon, so that's why I wanted to bring up his unmerged stats. This comes at the trade off of a few HP and Res for a more defined offensive statline.
Now she's a little less impressive, but still amazing: Lucina.
Her statline is even less bulky, but she is a little more diverse in playstyles than anyone else mentioned before with access to two different Personal weapons.
At Neutral:
HP50, 64/50/39/33
This is assuming she has Falchion with the bond refine, and the same criteria as the characters you've listed. Now you may be wondering why I would use a 5 star exclusive hero as a possible +10 even though I said that I used an unmerged Marth because of his rarity, and that's because of Masked Marth. At this time, there have been 9 free Masked Marth's since the game's release. Which is basically a free +8 Lucina. I'm also willing to bet that we'll get at least two more Masked Marth's by the end of this year, which equates to IS giving away a +10 hero.
Saying this, I also think that Eirika does what Marth can, but only on enemy phase. Eirika is for enemy phase with her bond refine tying her to teammates and Marth is for player and enemy phase with his double-buff ability letting him roam freely.
For me Eirika is a bit better. Over Tactic skills I prefer using Wave or LINK skills.
My main mergue proyect is actually Eirika and she becomes a monster wkth the right skills and buffs.
I use her with Def Ata LINK. This skill gives +14 Ata and Defense...
I usually use Res Tactic as SS and Spd Wave. She can buff +7 Ata, +7 Def +6 Spd +6Res to her allies and double buffs for herself. With skills like CD she can even tank a Fallen Hardin without taking damage
Pokemon GO
Fire Emblem Heroes
Fate Grand Order
Dragonball Legends
Dragalia Lost
IV Calc
Heroes