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Looking for Help - Innes and Hinokas

Summoned the following units with IVs that are slightly less than optimal:

+DEF/-HP regular Hinoka
+RES/-SPD Wings of Fate Hinoka
+HP/-RES regular Innes

Evidently it's not the end of the world for the three of them, but their playstyles change slightly without optimal IVs (i.e. -SPD Hinoka) and thus their listed builds may need some adjustment.

I'm looking to build them just so they're built, considering I'm likely not going to summon them again anytime soon, but I'm not against "expensive" builds to optimise them (though Swift Sparrow on a -SPD Hinoka might push it there).

I was thinking:

1) Duelist/Guidance/Tactic Support OG Hinoka (possible 4th member of main team with OG Eirika, OG F!Corrin and Brave Ephraim):

- Is Swift Sparrow / ATK/DEF Bond worth it on a unit I may not use on this main team? Has anyone got any awesome A Skills that they use and find effective (and respective B Skills, for that matter)?
- Does she have enough Speed for Desperation with her Prf Bonus + A Skill? (Tier 18.5)
- I'm sure Hinoka works "just fine" without an ATK/SPD boon but maybe there's another pathway to consider with better DEF (i.e. Duelist build)

2) Mage Tank/Armour Slayer/Drive Support WF Hinoka

- Despite anti-synergy, is Fury/QR suitable or is there an alternative that people have found useful?
- Is Guard useful for tanking faster mages, both armoured and otherwise?
- I don't think SPD salvaging is what I'll do and I'm stuck with Warrior Princess. If people have SPD salvaged though I'd love to see what you've done!

3) Innes??

- While the RES bane isn't the end of the world it affects his Nidhogg builds as they're centred around his RES, so it might be a case of going all-in in his offensive stats with LnD? Though I don't plan on foregoing Nidhogg solely for lack of fodder/keeping his niche; maybe a Bond skill is better but I only have ATK/DEF Bond.

Some guidance (excuse the pun) would be marvellous so feel free to share your builds for these characters, especially if you've had to make the most of suboptimal IVs.

Thanks in advance!

Asked by loftykinglaomedon13 months 2 weeks ago
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Answers

by Seeker 3 months 2 weeks ago

Hi, thanks for the question and for offering the work that you started with.

Hinoka +def -HP: is a decent IV, especially when weapon refine gets her back up to 40HP, which is actually significant for what I'm about to suggest.
If you can get her a spd buff (not hard on a flier team; if you're doing the tactics team you offered there then spd tactic comes from B.Ephraim and it'll be enough), I offer the sustain duelist setup that was developed when I asked for help building duelists for sustain. You might need to tweak it if she's going to offer tactics, but I think you'll understand the point and figure out how to make it work on the team you have in mind.

Hinoka's spear+eff
Reposition
Moonbow
Brazen atk/def
Renewal
Atk smoke
Spd smoke or res tactic

On a side note, B.Ephraim might not be ideal because he can't access the guidance on Hinoka's spear.

40HP, 29 def on the first hit, 36 def on the second hit. 95 physical bulk is pretty marginal for taking two hits without weapon triangle advantage, but if renewal activates in between you're up to 105, which will often be just barely enough. If it's not, atk smoke might do the trick, or you might receive def tactic, or even just ally support might get you through. In a more best-case scenario, you have def tactic and atk smoke both active for the equivalent of 49 def, which renewal should sustain without too much difficulty. Also, having 62 atk before buffs is a good idea in PvE now that inflated stats are getting as ridiculous as they have in recent days.

But if you're thinking something like swift sparrow+desperation, yes I think it does work if you have a spd tactic. 40 spd plus a buff will double a lot of units, especially in PvE.

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WF Hinoka +res -spd:
- has 35 spd if she keeps her prf, which I think is her best choice because otherwise her atk is actually a bit low for my taste. If you spam a lot of goad fliers, she can play for OHKO against armours (use an atk seal just for good measure); she can sometimes get her atk into the upper 60s so even guys like B.Hector might not survive a single hit.
- Don't give up on her spd and let the mages double you. It's too dangerous. I have a neutral Felicia+6 using fury (40 res, slightly less HP) and I wouldn't recommend it for my own Felicia. A lot of mages will be hitting you with upwards of 50 atk, so 32 res and 37 HP isn't going to do it. If you can get, like, 37-38 res, you can maybe think about it, but even then it's not completely reliable.
- If you have spd/res bond to give her that's an idea to combine with QR, but for that matter I think you may as well keep atk/spd bond.
- I probably wouldn't use fury unless you're using desperation or ploys. If you use it with desperation, the idea is to OHKO some armours or fliers to get her into desperation range, after which she can take them in two shots if she needs to. For ploys, 32 is a bit thin but 35 will do it because you're probably using spd ploy (and super-fast units against whom you actually need the ploy will get hit) or def ploy (and most units with good def don't have 35 res).
- if the mages are getting too fast and you don't want to go fury + spd ploy (ex: because you don't have spd ploy fodder or you're using goad fliers and someone else is using the spd ploy seal), consider letting a spd buff take care of her or having an ally spd ploy for her. You have 40 spd with her native A-skill, and you can add 2 with ally support. You're pretty close.

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Innes +HP -res:
The res bane is no doubt annoying, but you weren't ploying mages consistently with 31 res.

Generally my problem with Innes is that his spd is just a few ticks too low without a boon unless you use Nidhogg and QR. I have +atk -def which is supposed to be one of the ideal IVs, but I haven't done anything with him because QR3 requires 20k feathers, mages are too fast, and he's hopeless if he's going to get hit by DC.

If you interpret 28 res as being low enough that you're just going to go for some offensive build, I think you can lay down the prf. The extra HP is actually good for a fury+desperation build. He will have 56 physical bulk, which is generally enough to survive a counterattack, and if you refine for res he gets back up to 34 res, which tends to be enough for spd or def ploy. If you go for this new shining bow, you could even try to be cute and go for res ploy (so that their res is lower than their def to activate the bow's effect) but it will probably accomplish less than spd ploy. 37 spd plus a ploy...might require a buff, but remember that he probably isn't specializing against mages anymore if he takes the shining bow. 55 atk if the bow's effect activates, 48 if it doesn't (which usually means either that it's a very slow unit with mixed defenses, which he won't handle well, or a low-def unit such as a mage). If you don't want to spend such rare fodder, maybe slaying + iceberg/glacies is an option.

One budget option is to use him in AA specifically as an anti-raven mage since he comes with CA3 which would normally require 20k feathers to obtain. With Nidhogg stat boosts and an A-skill he has enough spd to natural-double a lot of them. You could even go for something like fury 2. The main issue with this build is that a lot of raven mages use bowbreaker, and there's really not a thing you can do about it because they could be any of three colours and in any case you need CA in your B-slot.

Yeah if you can't tell I'm really struggling. I find his statline very awkward to work with and the IVs don't help. Wish I could offer you something more convincing.

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As usual an insightful and detailed response, thank you very much.

OG Hinoka:
That's a rather nice duelist build and even better that I have Brazen Atk/Def on hand actually. I can provide the support to Hinoka through buffs without a problem, so I'll give it some thought because this build is very interesting. My Cordelia is also full on offensive so this fills a gap my other units don't.

I just realised B!Ephraim does not satisfy Hinoka's Guidance requirement, but I'll likely use Hinoka elsewhere.

WF!Hinoka:
I didn't intent to jettison any possibility of salvaging her Speed, I just turned my focus to RES instead but thank you for making that point about the importance of Speed, I was just reminded of the typical 46SPD Nino in the upper tiers (dangerous indeed).

I was thinking ploys so that's where Fury came in, but I'll think about whether to go Player Phase with Desperation (unfortunate but not completely crippling -SPD) or QR (anti-synergy). ATK/SPD Bond could actually be the better way to go depending on the C Slot and Support, which I could provide easily. Her Prf is armour-effective so Desperation may be the way to go since she isn't enemy phasing physical threats.

Innes:
I agree with Innes. I mean, you saw yourself I had little idea what to do with him. I realised after I got him he has an slightly inflexible statline - being a bit too slow, as you mentioned, and now with a slightly annoying RES bane that chipped away at a redeeming quality.

I know I wasn't going to ploy consistently with 31 RES, I just automatically thought FURY 34 RES and dismissed the initial RES stat. Since his higher RES is his niche and he is outclassed in other areas, the other option might just be to work around the RES bane, and the option of a Slaying Bow + Iceberg combo that I've seen Niles use came to mind just before I re-read you suggesting that to me, so we're on the same train of thought. In that case I'd maximise his RES stat on a budget and go Fury/CA/Fortress Res Seal or something along those lines. It's certainly not a role my other units fit.

Again, a big thank you for a marvellous response indeed.

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