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Gamepedia Tier list - The highlights

A short while ago I made a post about it, but I wanted to dive in this trainwreck of an tier list and pick out the things that bother me the most about it.

https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Arena_tier_list

I'll take my points from left to right (Red>blue>green>colorless)

Note that a few points can be explained by the fact that they didn't ajust much after the grail introduction. So TT and GHB units will be generally lower than they should be

I'll try to keep it at 10 points

#1 Laslow and Seliph above Josh and Lloyd

#2 Seth being at a lower tier than Luke and Stahl

#3 Gharnef beating Arvis and Julius, while Julius is below Raigh.

#4 Camus below Spring Xander

#5 Olivier beating Mae, L'Arachel and Saias. While sharing a tier with Micaiah. Micaiah 'eats armors for breakfast' Altina being in the 6th tier.
For that matter, Saias being basicly bottem tier.

#6 Walhart being basicly bottem tier. (Why do people think he sucks? Just use him well!)

#7 The entire axe B+ tier is a mess but Dorcas, Helbindi and Brave Ike certainly should be higher.

#8 The green ranged tier looks like it's sinking. Every unit should shove up 1 or 2 tiers. Especially Lewyn, Flying Nino, Soren and all the mounted mages.
Plus Legendery Lyn rock bottom

#9 All green dragon should also shove up two tiers.

#10 A small thing, but I really think Saizo is better than people give him credit for. A good option for close counter assassin builds. He's got good speed and def for a ranged unit. Makes for some safe debuffs/chip damage.

Asked by Sir of Coffee1 month 1 week ago

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Yeah its infamous for being really bs but of course the staff here instead of discussing with us our problems, they will call us babies and act like they know more when some of us play the game more than them. They will also blame it on waifu wars when it isnt. What bothers me is that. And a ton more such as Mia and Brave Ike's placement, Shiro's, etc. And they still count some units like Reinhardt as super high even though they have been hard countered to death. Also Saias is amazing and can mass debuff. Oliver can't. L'arachel is also somehow lower than mage eirika even though thry are nearly identical.

Also how low Julia and Deirdre are even though they counter many blue arena threats as well as green dragons.

"#10 A small thing, but I really thing Saizo is better than people give him credit for. A good option for close counter assassin builds. He's got good speed and def for a ranged unit. Makes for some safe debuffs/chip damage"

This "small thing" is the crux of the issue and kinda invalidates all ur previous points.
Every unit has its use. And people have biases towards units they invest in or learn to use. Just like ur crying about saizo not being higher in the tier but thered be people crying about oliver oliver not being taken as more than a meme.

What'd I say? The people who run the site wouldn't take our points seriously. And this proves it XD

Yes, every unit can be built to perform but some are simply better than others. From experience, Saizo, though not a one/two shot monster, does function a lot better than most other daggers.

Err sure any unit can be used. But I picked out Saizo, because I think he's accually useful. Not because I like his character or have him build up (I don't)

There are loads of units I'd say are not worth building if you just want somone useful:
Luke, Clive, Canas, Gunther, Jacob, Sully, Clarisse.
Just to name a few.

Saizo not being among them is because he has a unique statline, mergability and the use out of some nice daggers.

And how does that suddenly invalidate all my points?

In a vacum saizo can indeed carve out a niche for himself due to his unique statline. But you have to remember that tier lists are based on comparing performances and:
There are better daggers.
CC on units is less powerful due to the lower stats.
Daggers havent been that good in the first plce.

Ur basically advocating for an underwhelming unit (doesnt mean that it cant become good tho) in comparison to others. So what if you do get ur way and he becomes ranked higher? Then someone will come along and say that x unit should be ranked higher/lower because saizo is ranked so and so.....its a never ending thing..........

Your comment is blank

Wow you people just don't get it do you? You all are completely judgemental and when there are questions raised by the community you shit on them instead of doing something like discussing with them. Its a biased system that is run here, and so if what you said is true, then why does saizo place so low compared to other dagger users? You've caught yourself in a lie. Also *you* think dagger units aren't good but quite a few people would disagree with you. Why else would people discuss kitty paddle and poison dagger still? They are good and many daggers can do well debuffing others. You say we are biased but you are just as biased. Don't lie. And saizo underwhelming? Hah!

Theres a difference between a unit being good and a unit being good IN ARENA. Tier lists arent there to shit on ur waifus theyre there to tell u the state of the metagame

Take jaffar for example. Another dagger unit ranked low. Even with a weapon refine hes still bottom tier. He can do some crazy builds with vantage where people kamikaze on him......but thats just not where the meta is. Like why would u choose jaffar when wrazzle dazzle units exist? His statline is also super underwhelming.

I don't think we can come to an agreement here, so let's just stop.

[Brain fart reply was removed]

Jaffar scores better than Wrath/Dazzle healers so, that's why I'd pick him over them.

Then what happens to units like brave ike who counter the meta? You are clearly biased. The entire tier list shouldn't be focused on the meta. That's one of the things everyone hates. And razzle dazzle units can be countered as well if you know what you are doing. You guys take few things into consideration and you still refuse to acknowledge the lack of communication with the community here.

My dude.....whats with this Us VS them attitude of urs. Im not part of the staff like ???????

And u cant call everyone who has a different opinion than u biased....thats....not how that works. Like i have no personal investment in the arena tiering system.

U not wanting tiering to revolve around arena is probly ur most valid point. But its a business decision for them to not want to expand it too much and have more variable to consider or making multiple ones. They already take their sweet ass time updating just one much less multiple ones. And its not like theres a lot of money in pleasing weaboos......

So selfishness. Only having 1 tier that appeals to only you and a few others when most disagree with it. Im not even gonna continue this because your logic is so... Its like there's nothing you say to really help your opinion.

Selfishness? They literally dont owe u anything. Whats with this entitled BS u spew.

Can you write full sentences and not use u as a replacement for you? Cuz you look like you are a little kid with that writing. And if you wanna debate then fine. I will talk about the pros of the current tier list and you talk about the cons. Do we have a deal? Also I could go first if you wish.

"not use u as a replacement for you? CUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ you look like a little kid with that writing"
Were done here, this convo has finally devolved to nitpicking writing style over content

So I win this debate it seems. Good night.

Mr. Caffeine (sir of coffee) some people speak out their ass. None of your points were invalidated.

Yeah, I have a bad habit of responding to too many comments.

Hey it isn't a bad habit. After all you were right.

Regardless of reasoning, tier lists will always be subjective (except their Arena Score Tier List). That being said, I haven't taken that tier list seriously in ages. It's just that bad.

#3 Gharnef is sadly a trash unit (compared to other mages, especially Arivs)

#10 I consistently run into disgusting Saizo builds in T21

They run units through a simulator which isn't a proper representation of how battles truly play out. Pfft
Anyways, best not to get hung over it.

I don't think Gharnef is total trash, him having both defence and speed helps. But he should certainly be lower than units like Arvis and Julius.

It's kinda funny, Gharnef's stats are very similair to Saizo. Just trading the def for a lot more res.

Yea, he's not terrible on his own but in comparison to other red mages, he's kinda poopoo.

Arvis and Saias are much more useful as a unit that takes 3 turns to activate their legendary weapon comes across as dead weight comparwd to arvis who can be a pseudo healer with ardent sacrifice and recovery ring, as well as the ability to mass debuff enemies which proves useful as you can use such units to corrall the enemy AI in the direction you want them to go

The main thing I think Gharnef can do is take hits from archers, and attack back with magical damage.
Units like Lyon/Sophia struggle with the doubles and the special procs that brings.

I do think Owltome does serve him better than Imhullu. An allround stat spread needs more raw stats to work better. A candelabra or theoretical serpent tome would work as well.

As for Imhullu.. I agree it's not the best. But he could make use out of it. Pair him up with a cavalier or fliers, give him tactic skills and reposition and have him launch buffed unit towards enemies that can't counter.
Turn 3 is faster than you think.

Halloween Mia being higher than Brave Veronica annoys me the most

But last i saw mia was below veronica? I thought they should be equal cuz of veronicas legendary weapon but Mia's useful niche of beimg a healing flier.

Yeah, they should at least be tied. Mia does score better (atm) and has flier mobility but Vero's weapon is still busted regardless of trenches.

Added bonus to green mages apparently th ebest ones are Julia and Deirdre