Finally, they moved Reinhardt to Tier 1

Also, Black Knight becomes the first character in Tier 1 that cannot be readily merged to +10.

Asked by RyomaLobster9 months 3 weeks ago


Huh, never really noticed that Rein wasn't up there but I don't look at the tier list often. I do disagree with Black Knight being in tier 1 however. His speed is being overplayed a bit and his magic fragility sets him up as just another Ike wit extra HP and more speed, without being as mobile really. His stat spread is really similar to Ike but instead of having a set made to use Aether and set up kills and self restoration, he sets himself up for just...overkilling on one attack.

When a single unit often needs to fight twice, or be used over the course of chain challenges, Ike with Aether and Hector with Sol are inherently very useful to avoid running an actual healer.

Essentially the Black knight is an armored Ike as far as the overall stat setup is and legendary weapon, just with less attack for killing targets on the counter and he's less likely to run QR like Ike to ensure he kills ranged bait targets.

Is he good? Yes. Is he as great as people think/better than a DC Zephiel? I do not think so.

wait, you're he wasn't

The dude is easily the most oppresive character as much as in a player's hands as he is really annoying against AI. There's a reason why people complain about him. You're already narrowed-down to mostly likely choose a Green to counter him. Let alone the fact that very few greens can take a fully-buffed Quickened Moonbow to the face and live to fight back...and most need TA to do so. Lyn just takes basically any one Raven tome user. My +Res/-HP Sanaki can tank and two-shot her with a *4 Raven tome.

I have no idea what he's doing that high. Sure, are fucking savage...until you factor 1 Mov. That's it. It's arguably his one weakness, but it can matter a lot. You can't say that's better than potentially cornering your opponent to the point people absolutely need to counter you or it's checkmate (Reinhardt and Lyn to a somewhat lesser extent).

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised to see he finally got bumped up. And he didn't become any better besides maybe soon having another top meta threat he destroys, it was just the admins being stubborn. Rein has been one of THE definitive meta-defining units for months now, he's always been T1/S+ on that alone, regardless of how worthless he may be on enemy phase.

And BK is great, but I'm actually wondering if putting him T1 is jumping the gun. He'll definitely be omnipresent in the Arena, but I think that's just as much for the F2P/Budget appeal than his actual effectiveness compared to harder to pull with good iv heroes. I'll have to run some calcs and see how he stacks up against the meta vs Ike/Ryoma, tho I'm sure he outdoes Zephiel.

It hardly matters what Reinhardt can or cannot do in his Enemy Phase since a well-built and fully-buffed Reinhardt ought to make them pretty much non-existent. The best defense can sometimes be the best offense.

Yeah, I agree with this. My only point was, iirc, the reason provided for Reinhardt being T2 in the first place was that he was defenseless on enemy phase and/or a "one trick pony" (no pun intended). I've always disagreed with that train of thought, as he's murderous enough in his one niche that it doesn't matter.

I think what makes BK already so high up there is his flexible A, Legendary DC 16 M weapon, high BST, Base Kit, and mixed offense and support, which is a dream unit. Plus, he's practically free and readily available, which people could argue the same with Zeph, but like...

Grinding for a character is way better than facing off against it in a BHB setting, which would probably be frightful with the likes of Black Knight.

His resistance is low, but with armor buffs, it's not a major issue, and he could, hypothetically, run Boost Skills with no issues, most notably Water Boost. That's not necessarily a sound choice, but it's something.

He probably has a chance to run high risk abilities with no issues either, which makes him a safe unit to experiment basically everything.

So hey, he's got it made.