Aether raids are a prime example of why BST scoring isn't anywhere near as bad as ya'll think it is.
Arena gets dull and boring with nearly nothing but armor units and dragons, because you're kinda forced to run them if you want to score extremely high and survive Tier 21.
Aether Raids lets you have freedom in your team customization, on top of map customization. I'd much rather have this.
Thats loser talk and not even close to true. I don't run a single armor or dragon and could stay in 21 perpetually, until they change arena again, if I whaled for dual rally+ skills for my core and askr units.
The fact that the seeming majority of players are running into the same defenses of rein, blyn, veronica, and a dancer is all arena would be if there were no restrictions.
I'm just talking from experience. Almost every defensive team I've seen in arena is Armor Emblem, Dragon Emblem, or any mix in between. I rarely see anything actually creative and cool in there.
If you're constantly staying in T21 with your team, then Kudos, you're doing something right.
And before recently, I've rarely encountered Lynhardt + Veronica in AR. They've shown up more to me, but Idc, more wins for me because counters are not hard to get and make.
That's not true when you met teams of 5 units, a B!Lyn, a Reinhardt, a Veronica, and 2 dancers.
Or any other stupid system inbetween. Hell, I'm in perpetual T19.5 in Arena, but it's because I haven't done jack to reach T20 perpetually yet.
So I have to agree with Nilla here. BST is ok, it's fine and honestly I don't see the big deal. Aether Raids however, sure, it's competitive, but when you hit the higher levels (I haven't gone down a rank yet, by T13) I must say that teams get much more repetitive than arena. And I mean, way too repetitive.
Totally not true, I have seen a lot of original teams at the top, not just the teams but the map layout as well. And not a single team is unbeatable, far from it, in fact you can make setups so that most matchups are easy. This is MUCH more fun imo.
Either way, my original reply was just to troll Allin.
Totally agree with you Nilla.
I'm sick and tired of Reinhardt, B!Veronica, B!Lyn, Dancer.
"But Lain, why don't you just build a Raven Tome unit and kill them? It's that easy."
Give me the time, materials and an actually cool unit to use it on.
AR is supposed to be (atleast in my eyes) a place where you can play with the units you want instead of getting cucked by the BST scoring.
But what're people (not all, but many of them) doing?
Spamming Armor Emblem and that idiotic Reinhardt, B!Veronica, B!Lyn, Dancer combo just to get up instead of being creative and making a cool team to fight against.
Now I need to play against the "meta" AGAIN instead of playing with the units I want.
Anywhere you have PvP, there will be meta. At least here, your freedom to counter that meta is based on gameplay, rather than one very specific f2p unit because of BST (Effie, sheena, what a draug).
What’s more, in AR, you actually get to use your core, rather then forcing them all to cheer from the bench like in arena.
Fae (and others) can hard counter both Rein and Lyn and only need to be buffed to survive the Veronica part.
I get your point and you're right.
But AR giving us the freedom to play our units is that thing that bothers me.
You still need to play against that certian meta that people forced it into because it's the easiest way to get wins.
Me, as an example, don't like dragons.
Building that certain unit(s) just to have a chance to compete in that gamemode is not fun (atleast for me)
When AR gives us the freedom, why do we still "need" to build units that we possibly don't like or don't want to build?
I just don't like that concept at all.
Fair enough. I won’t argue that. There should still be more build diversity on defense teams.
AR offense provides quite a bit of diversity by way of being able to preview and choose from 5 raiding teams, but the defense teams are a bit gimmicky, still.
I personally find L!Lucina + dancer the hardest AI to predict.
Then I think you might want to consider making your own game. There are a range of ways to beat cancerous units, and it might not be wide but there's a spectrum.
Surtr, for example.
- If you like enemy phase play, a well-built Hinata will actually tank him easily and ignis the hell out of him
- If you like specials, there are ways to win with Zelgius
- Even Fir+10 with a single def buff can beat Surtr+10 on enemy phase with a double wrath moonbow and brazen atk/res seal
- If you like duelists, Ogma with null follow-up, panic ploy, and brazen atk/def can beat him and still have 42 spd unmerged
- If you like mages and player phase, Lilina with a pre-charged glimmer will OHKO him like she would most green armours
- Even Ophelia can potentially blast through him in one round using a blazing AoE. I've calculated this before.
- If fast mages are your style, you can kite him with draw back or a dancer, or some blade tomes might even OHKO him, especially reds
- If you like economy and efficiency, armoursmasher + death blow or slaying hammer with axebreaker will get it done.
- If you happen to have H.Kagero with sky maiougi (which comes from HF Ryoma), she might actually double him with bold fighter, which could also work.
- And of course, pain+ and similar strategies.
That's player phase, enemy phase, physicals, magicals, low spd, high spd, melee, ranged, and all four colours. What do you mean, forced to build exactly one type of unit?
We need to play according to the opponent in all modes. I think the better complaint against arena was that it ruled out certain units who were perfectly competent on the field. Some units will struggle a lot against ranged horses; it is immature to complain that eating cannot be done with a hammer because one likes hammers or that work is not accomplished merely by sitting around because one likes sitting around. There are potentially ways to make it work with melee infantry, but it won't be easy, just like eating with a hammer requires significantly more skill (and probably willpower) than eating with fork and knife, chopsticks, or even bare hands.
In any case, Reinhardt+Lyn+Veronica is a pretty bad defense strategy and really easy to counter. People who insist on it will lose consistently in defense, especially as they climb higher and their competition is more astute. Then they will get stuck because they can't win enough points on offense to get 400 lift per week after defense losses due to escalating aether costs. If you don't want to deal with so many ranged cavaliers, your goal is to get into lift ranges where people use better defense strategies. I'm at 5100 lift and I don't even see many cavalry teams anymore. Veronica, yes. Dancers, yes. But they usually appear with units that aren't Reinhardt and Lyn. Some are slow to figure out how easy it is to counter that annoying trio, so maybe they get stuck in the same lift range until they figure out that all you need is a 4*+9 Cecilia, a 4* Y.Roy, a 4* Setsuna, and a 4* Beruka/Peri/Clarisse. It is not a fault of the system. A good system will show the relative strengths of players. BST in arena does the opposite; it allows players lacking in skill to get a free pass out of dealing with ranged horses and dancers.
And 4*+9 Cecilia is not hard to make. The green pool is small, and we even get two copies for free.
You made a statement with absolutely no backing support for your statement. I’ve seen a lot of creative build options in ARs. Here was the only one I’ve ever outright lost to while raiding.
I’ve never lost to a team with Lyn / Reinhardt in AR, and they don’t bother me.
Veronica + dancer is potent and fun to play against. Most of the time I’m fine with it.
>"my experience doesn't match what other experience so theyre lying"
You're an idiot,. I've fought maybe two teams that are cav cancer, and thats it, doesn't change the fact that the cav cancer teams are all other people seem to be getting, just look at the post history about aether raids everywhere, the majority of posts are people bitching about blyn, rein, vero, and a dancer.
I’m not an idiot, and I never claimed others were lying. Of course I’ve seen a lot of that combo as well. I’ve just found ways to counter it that rely on gameplay rather than BST).
Of course Veronica + dancer causes me to take a death or two sometimes, but that’s part of what makes it a fun challenge.
True, you can easily stay in T21 without armored units. If they would change the system, arena would be pure cancer, now with all the new strong units/skills..
Edit: It could be more enjoyable to run into op units rather than having to optimize your team for arena.. still, both arguments are valid
Aether raids just prove how stupid BST scoring is.
Everyone bitching about Veronica, Reinhardt, Dancers. Happy that they get matched up against "stronger" units in arena instead? Obviously, they're not too easy/weak for your team to fight. Those units are powerful, they have other advantages that make up for the lower BST. They should score highly and match up against high-scoring opponents. Making weaker teams fight them makes no sense.
You would see a lot less of Rein+Veronica+dancer in a BST-less arena than you do in aether raids. In aether raids you need to make your defence as cancer as possible to try and lose less score. In arena, defences don't matter that much, plenty of people like showing off their favourite units or theme teams, you just don't see them once you score high enough you only fight the armour and dragon teams. Also in aether raids merges don't really matter, but in arena they'd be even more important if BST scoring was removed. Almost everyone has a reinhardt and a veronica and a dancer to use in raids but most of them are not +10.
I'd rather have AR that that Arena stuff, i can use ANY unit i want in there, uncluding raventome dancer, horse cav unit, dragon so i can't care less about Rein and Lyn stuff, Ursula can deal with those 2 without any problems ( so happy she is a bonus unit)
( I guess i'm also the persone you are talking against, i use B!Veronica, Aversa, B!Ninian and WT!Olivia)
I'd say exactly the opposite - it shows precisely why BST-based scoring is so bad. If you can BST-and SP-spam your way out of dealing with dazzling staves, dancers, and ranged horses, players who lack the skill to deal with these aggressive combinations score better than those who have to deal with it regularly. It's completely upside-down.
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