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Evaluating the new merge system

There are pros and cons to IS' new way of handling merges.

Pro:
- Interesting option to go for neutral as a balanced approach (ex: units with 35/35 offensive stats will probably gain +2 spd and +1 atk on the first merge for 36/37, which might be preferable to 35/39 in some cases)
- On a squishy mage, say, Linde, with her 35/36 offensive spread, neutral IVs bring her to 36/38 which is a nice balanced boost, but she also gains 1HP, which can be the tipping point for surviving one counterattack. I find this possibility quite interesting. I think this comes into play also with Eir, who, of course, is very common with neutral IVs.
- Creates interesting dilemmas for players with bad IVs on a character with good fodder and an extra copy. Do you want 4 more spd on a fast unit, or do you prefer to make a monster out of another unit? Both could be pretty good for the barracks, and you have to choose.

Con:
- Banes are sometimes very strategic, such as forcing opponents to double you using -spd so that you can charge your special or -HP in order to reach certain thresholds for infantry pulse or brazen+desperation (Celica especially with Ragnarok + fury recoil)
- Disadvantageous to gen 1 units who tend to have more HP than gen 2 units, who have it in other stats. Gen 1 units are at a disadvantage as it is due to lower BST and often distributed in such a manner that they are less pungent than their gen 2 counterparts. The last thing we need is to give gen 2 units back the bulk they dumped, making them squishy, while giving gen 1 units back HP which wasn't really helping them. This is very poor of IS from the perspective of game management.
- no longer possible to meme with 9 res on a fully merged Ogma or Bartre until we get L&D seal (but then it could have been 4 res. Screw it just don't merge the guy and have 0 res.)
- feeds the obsessive preoccupation people have with IVs and their pathological inability to accept an undesired bane. I think there's a life lesson to be learned in this microcosm and they're giving people a ticket to insisting on their immaturity.

Unclear or matter of taste, combat aspects:
- speedy mixed tanks like Nowi or Fae +spd might actually become resistant to Aversa, which poses some potential conundrums to players who like using Aversa. +spd Sheena also goes from maybe resistant to likely resistant.
- along similar lines, merged Aversa now has 1HP more than she used to.
- squishy mages (or other ranged units) are a little less squishy than before. I feel neutral about this because in most cases they could always go for -res instead of -def or -HP, which would give them the same physical bulk they have after the update. In any case, merging is supposed to make units less squishy twice as fast as any target gains atk, so I think it's consistent with what merges do, so I consider this a positive.
- A lot of non-armours just moved one step closer to equalling armours in arena score - in fact, the 167BST dragons have arisen to be on a level with the f2p armours. I would say that the absurdity of the arena scoring system has been mitigated very slightly by this change and that this is good.
- Benefits units who use all five stats more than units that don't. (This is along similar lines to the point in the cons section about gen 1 vs gen 2 units.) Probably it's inevitable that some updates will do this; not all units will always be affected equally by any systematic changes. As a case in point, Adrift Corrins are extremely happy about this change. HP was arguably the only good bane, on F.Corrin especially who has 27 neutral res, and their HP is already pretty thin, which is the main downside to these two units. If they had 50HP, they probably just tank everything with healing specials, but when they only have 42-43HP, it's not necessarily enough to cover the heavier hits before healing specials can activate. (Some builds of Soleil have this issue too.) Now they get some HP back, which reduces the main obstacle to their tanking everything. I would say this is a negative change because its main benefit is to units that are borderline OP with the ability to just run everything over with sheer stats. It's the same premise as the point I made in the cons section - these are not the units you want to buff with systematic changes; it's everybody but them.

Unclear or matter of taste, summoning and philosophical aspects:
- Assuming there are two IVs you like (say, +spd -HP and +spd -res, for example), the probability of finding your desired IV in 11 tries has gone from about 2 in 3 to 9 in 10. I personally think 2 in 3 seems like a good balanced number and that 9 in 10 is a little too easy because we should learn to work with suboptimal IVs; others might consider that you should be able to find perfect IVs in 11 tries.
- Creates some new interest in older units for veterans who already have a lot of 5* exclusives. If these units appear on legendary banners or - more likely - if they come off focus, the first merge can be a lot more meaningful than before. But this is arguably a cheap and poor way for IS to try to create interest against the tides of a bad powercreep model.
- Semi-obvious cash grab. "Got a bad IV? Pull another one and you're guaranteed to be able to patch it." But that's an interpretation of a game mechanic they introduced. A more neutral way to look at it is that it's just an option they introduce and that every time we get a unit with a bad bane (or even with neutral IVs) we need to consider whether we summon for another copy to improve our unit or whether we summon for something else. It's actually adding more shades to the question of how to spend 70-200 orbs.
- Choosing a bane is one of the good challenges in the game and a decision that allowed players to exercise their knowledge of the game more fully. Generally, I find that the game is going in a direction where it seems more and more watered down, straightforward, obvious, and I don't think that's good for any game. And I think this is the overarching read on this change which really settles the matter for me - ridding the game of its colour and flavour in favour of "easy," and "comfortable" is not a good thing, so this update is bane more than it is boon.

Asked by Seeker2 days 16 hours ago
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Answers

by Dan 2 days 16 hours ago

The neutral characters as you mentioned will be the most interesting to see how they shape out. That’s the best takeaway imo relevant to my playing style.

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by Selas 2 days 15 hours ago

I think it will be very interesting for GHB/TT units who possibly get "fixed IVs" or simply a stat boost, which can put some of them over some treshholds or possibly redeems some of their "flawed" stats

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picking a bane is not a challenge, most of the time its just dumps the lowest stat which does not change the role of a character for example for effie she would dump her speed as she only has 26 speed at +10 and 23 with a bane having that 3 speed back will not change anything as its insignificant.

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26 spd is actually usable for blocking bold fighter with wary fighter. Plus, in PvE (or even sometimes among player-built units) there are units with spd around 28-30 such as manaketes and slow mages. 23 spd, +atk brash desperation Micaiah can wreck you if you use DC. 26 spd, she needs +spd or merges or spd ploy. Nowi will double through Effie's wary fighter with QR if Nowi doesn't have -spd. 26 spd Effie might escape Nowi's double if Nowi isn't fully merged or if Effie has ally support. In PvE there are more than a few units that hover around 28-30 spd. Alternatively, on a vengeful fighter build Effie probably wants her opponent to double. 26 spd is not to her advantage for the purposes of activating a 4CD special.

On Sheena I don't think the dump stat is so obvious either, especially once Aversa came into the game, and doubly so with Surtr's influence on the meta. If you went -HP Aversa would debuff and panic; if you go -spd then Lilina hurts a lot more. If you go +spd you can even potentially block axebreakers with wary fighter in those "tank everything" strategies. Nowi was in the same boat. -HP meant vulnerability to Aversa, but if you didn't go -HP then what do you give up?

Even on my unmerged Dorcas there's a slight but noticeable difference that -spd makes. Slow units like Myrrh suddenly start doubling him.

Of course the roles of units don't really change, but certain matchups can change. And it should be acknowledged that on more than half of the units in the game, the difference is going to be pretty small because they do have a clear dump stat.

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by format 2 days 15 hours ago

where exactly can i read the changes to merges to give your post context ?

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Dont have a link but in Feb what's being changed is your bane is erased upon the first merge you make. For neutral you get an extra 3 points in your strongest stats

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There's an in-game notification below the notifications about the LHB and legendary banner. Be sure to read it carefully because it contains details lots of people are missing.

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I agree with everything you said. For the disadvantages, I'd add that this update can screw up Infantry Pulse setups too.

I think the Duel Skills update was okay, but retroactively changing units is bad. People invested into certain IVs, and now those IVs might suck. Could be a wasted 20k feathers on a +10 unit that used to be perfect but now isn't. Thankfully I'm not one of those people, but I did give up a good IV Sheena that I have to wait to pull again.

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At low merges I don't think it matters unless you're using blessings in which case it's irrelevant anyways. 42HP is the threshold where fury + Ragnarok recoil will cease to drop her into desperation. At 41HP it still works.

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by TeeJay 2 days 14 hours ago

On the note of "I'll get doubled less now!"

Frankly, this is very minor. Take Lukas for example. Most people that went from hitting Lukas twice to hitting Lukas once... were Mages that killed Lukas if they attacked twice... 37 heroes were in the range of moving from maybe doubling Lukas to hitting him once (24-26 speed no longer doubles Lukas) (assuming they didn't take a speed bane in the first place...). A lot of the units... are in the exact same boat as Lukas. They'd often also take minus spd as it was the least impactful on them when they came face to face with one of the near base 40 speed heroes. Some of the heroes that didn't take the speed bane though? Lilina, who no longer KO's Lukas cause she doesn't double him. Eldigan? For one he's probably gonna be getting hone cav'ed, so he'll still double, and sometimes he runs Fury, so again... still doubling... Even if he didn't, he's not touching Lukas anyway. Xander, in a lot of the same boat as Eldigan, Lukas still destroys him, two attacks or not. Alfonse... Yeah, this one should be obvious there's no big change here either. TA Cecilia... no longer KOs Lukas... Obviously, a buffed up Blade Tome Cecilia still does, but these changes actually make it so Lukas doesn't get two shotted by her. Clive... still dominates, and in fact, does better than when he doesn't have - spd??? Gennys that didn't take -spd in the past now DO WORSE AGAINST LUKAS, AS THEY DON'T KILL HIM IN ONE ROUND. Gerome... OH, WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT. His Slaying Axe recommended set can beat a netural speed lukas now, but his Brave Axe set? Yeah Lukas wins, and does the exact same with or without it. H!Dorcas, still loses. Lachesis, can't ORKO. Same with Lissa. Against Michalis now you live with 39 hp instead of 1 against his offensive set, but now lose against his defensive set, and lastly Stahl... what needs to be said?

From what I can tell, there are TWO sets, on TWO axe users, that now do better against Lukas, but there are some mages that don't even kill you anymore either. This still looks like a buff to me.

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Yeah, most QR enemy phase units are completely fine with this update. Sure, there are a couple of negative changes, but there are also benefits like i mentioned. The only weird cases i can see coming out of this is Kliff, because only a very few units took minus atk out of necessity cause they already had a terrible attack, but Kliff actually functions off of having a lower attack. The other funky cases are those near the speed threshold of "do I actually care about speed?" when deciding if they're going to just use QR or not. The HP changes are probably about the only reasonable complaint in this entire change though, as you'll have to do a lot of work to refigure out a team with probably fishing for +HP boons and plugging in different units/use different merge levels.

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Neutral isn't an interesting option because no one is going to use it for perfect ivs because it will never be optimal. You go for a fast attacker you generally want +Atk or +Spd. Giving up 3 points in one for 1 point in each is an awful trade no one is gonna take. And this goes for basically every unit in the game. Because just about every character is getting 1 point in each stat they want and then one in HP.

For the cashgrab thing I agree, but I mostly disagree. A lot of people have wanted iv rerolls since the beginning of time. This is an even better idea because instead of using 20000 feathers for it or a set amount of orbs just for a chance to get good ivs, you get gauranteed good ivs from basically just getting them again or merging more, . I don't think having more options is a bad thing, because getting an extra copy is still up to the player. And it makes merging much easier, which has been a complaint hving to iv hunt for a long time to get perfect ivs. Now the chances are very good at getting your perfect ivs before +10. or even before +5. Them baiting scrubs on 5 star exclusives is what it is. If they got shit ivs chances are they'd still go anyway, and now at least the end result wil be good as long as they get the second one.

And choosing a bane is more of an I got fucked by RNG rather than something actually strategic. Nearly every character has an easy dump stat and I've only been stumped on which to take a few times before.

My only real downside that isn't just whining to me is
"I wanted this stat to be dumped, rather than it just being dumped because it had to be."

This is only an extra option, and I think self-restraint not being practiced by the player doesn't mean the change is bad. A lot of us have self-restraint, just like how I'm not gonna go for another Ephraim to fix his Res.

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Uh...no? Galeforcers have a goldilocks zone for atk. Too much, and galeforce doesn't activate; too little, and they wall you with def.

Arguably the same for any offensive unit, actually. Overkill spd is not generally a good thing; it's wasted stats that could go into more atk, either to get through certain units that are really designed to tank everything or to KO against triangle disadvantage.

It is obvious that once an offensive unit achieves sufficient spd, atk is the main stat which helps. If +atk isn't fast enough and +spd is overkill, there's actually an option now, especially if your bulk is as thin as that of SF Nino or S.Linde.

And if picking a bane is a matter of getting put into awkward spots by the RNG, I consider that part of the game. Feather management is part of the game; orb management is part of the game. Strategy isn't just what's theoretically best; it's also what happens practically speaking.

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Orb management still is part of the game. You have to manage whether or not you get a 2nd one. And if you are less likely to get iv screwed by the system. You're the only person on Earth complaining about not getting screwed enough by bad ivs. It's not a difficulty, it's RNG. It's a hassle, but not difficulty.

As for galeforcers... just no. No one is gonna pick neutral for that. Time will tell, that people aren't gonna go for 2 points when 3 is available. You'll see on this one

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Definitely won't be the popular option, I'll give you that. Also because neutral is 4 times harder to find than a boon. But I think it can in some cases be more compelling, especially on fliers who end up in a certain speed zone.

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Not an interesting option? But... any GHB and TT unit HAVE to use that system anyway... Also as someone who's only gotten -atk Inigos, I have to greatly disagree with your assessment of "you'll get a perfect IV one by ten" Its not always a matter of that. I even had to wait on my +10 Tiki waiting for a minus spd +atk/+def/+res to show up for me. Like IS said, there were 21 possible arrangements to have. Sure, its nearly a 50/50 to get one in 11, but that's not always the case. You'll always see strange events in chance games like this. I remember watching a Roulette wheel landing black 20 times in a row... then no more than 5 minutes later landing red 20 times in a row.

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Neutral isn’t an interesting option in those cases. Key word is option. And your anecdote doesn’t mean anything. the odds for getting your perfects ivs have more than tripled this is a fact

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