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Challenge Thread: Create Dancer Builds that can KO the Black Knight

So here's the challenge... Create builds for Azura, Olivia, and Ninian that fulfill their primary role of giving their turn away while allowing them to counter the Black Knight!

Bonus points to builds that 1) have Wings of Mercy in the B slot, 2) use commonly available skills, 3) can win when attacking*, and 4) can reliably beat optimized Black Knight builds (Steady Breath, Wrath, Fury, etc). Also, no team supports on either side - this is a one on one fight to the death.

*I've come up with several builds that win on the bait but it's much harder to win when attacking the Black Knight.

I'll start with Olivia. The Resonating Fangs TT gave us Tobin and, more importantly, cheap Armorslayer+ inheritance. In theory, we should be able to build an Olivia that can counter the Black Knight and Hector.

- Can Opener Olivia -
Weapon: Armorslayer+ (Thanks Tobin!)
IVs: Neutral (Budget option!)
A Slot: Darting Blow (Thanks Valtner!)
B Slot: Wings of Mercy (For bonus points!)
C Slot: Flexible! (This should count for bonus points!)
Special: Moonbow (Budget option!)
Seal: Flexible! (This should count for bonus points!)

Can Opener Olivia hits the Black Knight, gets hit in return, and then hits back with Moonbow for the KO! Simple but sweet. Wait - that was against the vanilla Black Knight, how does she fare against other varieties?

Wrath Black Knight - Victory! Olivia wins!
Fury Black Knight - Olivia cannot double. She dies.
Life & Death Black Knight - Olivia cannot double. She dies.
Steady Breath Black Knight - Victory! Olivia wins!

You should be noticing a pattern... If Olivia can double she wins, if Olivia cannot double she dies. I couldn't come up with a budget method that would allow her to survive Black Luna with or without Wrath.

Okay... But what if the Black Knight attacks her? Can Opener Olivia usually wins on the bait. So I'd give this build a rating of, eh, 75%. It's budget and preserves her primary role but can't reliably counter some common Black Knight builds.

Now it's your turn.

Asked by Kaihaku7 months ago

Answers

Azura can flat out overkill Black knight or any red unit for that matter with triangle adept 3 and her innate sapphire lances TA3 which grants 40% in total additional damage. B slot can be wings of mercy 3, C slot is flexible and specials can be luna / moonbow / flexible

TA and saphire lance do not stack as color advantage also gives 20% and 40% bonus is max.

If you really want to kill black knight with azura, you can obliterate him with heavy spear(not even need + verison) and TA3, quite bad tbh, but if you really wish so... I have a hard time not seeing her standard build not getting rid of him, or close to.

Also, running hone speed or something on your team should be considered budget....

The vanilla Black Knight actually survives a hit from Azura running Heavy Spear with Triangle Adept...it turns out that the added might from Heavy Spear+ is critical to finishing him off in one blow. That said, he deals little damage to her on the counter and cannot KO even with Black Luna.

However... Heavy Spear/TA Azura doesn't do as well when the Black Knight is running Wrath. In particular, Wrath and Fury together result in an instant KO on when Black Luna triggers...so inheriting over Heavy Spear+ is essential and as it hasn't been available on a free 5* that's no longer budget.

But, like you, I feel that Azura should be able to counter the Black Knight with her default Sapphire Lance+. The Sapphire Lance+ is useful in many more situations than Heavy Spear+ and frees up her A slot for more useful skills.

I'm afraid that won't quite do the trick as others have noted. Like Olivia, she can pull off the Darting Blow/Moonbow combo to finish him off...but only if he's not running Fury/Life & Death. Even with Sapphire Lance+ Azura usually cannot survive Black Luna.

Well, you can't initiate on the guy ever or he'll one shot you with Black Luna due to QP!Wrath!Steady Breath. You'll also need 39 Speed and a Hone Speed support to reliably outspeed both Steady Breath and Fury variants, and Threaten Speed will be needed to deal with Armour Emblem buffed variants of him.

Keeping those two things in mind, +Spd/-Res Azura with her standard set can bait can kill him safely with no issues, Ninian with her TA set can also kill him if she finds a way to outspeed him, bait and kill on player phase, or by running Swordbreaker.

I don't see that problem here since it's currently impossible for him to proc Black Luna on his first hit when he initiates, and unless you're making a dancer build for your defence team, it should be very simple to deal with him.

Oh yeah, he actually has the perfect damage needed to kill her at neutral, which means the extra defence actually saves her.

That actually makes life easier then.

+Spd/-Res
Sapphire Lance+
Dance
Moonbow
Fury 3
WoM
Flexible
HP +3 / Attack +1

With that build and a Hone Speed teammate, she can reliably initiate and bait non Armour Emblem Black Knights and kill him every time.
With Amour Emblem buffs, she'll need an additional Fortify Defence to survive his potential 60 attack, but she'll need Swordbreaker to actually kill him if he's fully buffed. Without Fortify Armour however, I believe an Attack Seal actually kills him in one hit (or might miss out by 1 HP).

So the only variants of Black Knight she can't handle with this set up is initiating on QP!Steady!Wrath variants and fully armour buffed variants.

Well... We won't worry too much about armor emblem as, once team support comes into play, it gets far too complicated to calculate all the options. Besides we'll have team supports in place to balance or counter out the enemy's buffs.

Actually... Neutral Azura running Sapphire Lance+ survives QP!Steady Breath!Wrath Black Luna with exactly 1 HP. However, she needs Darting Blow to double and Moonbow to deal enough damage on the follow-up to KO.

But, in any case, we want to win on initiation and baiting against as many Black Knight builds as possible - flexibility is important on the battlefield. Steady Breath/Wrath/QP is a problematical set-up for dancers not running Triangle Adept...but it pretty much guarantees that our dancers can win by baiting. It's like noticing that a Hector isn't running Vantage.

Basically, Wrath in the B slot is effectively a win condition for our dancers when baiting the Black Knight unless he is running Darting Blow, Wind Boost, or Life & Death.

+Spd Ninian with Darting Blow and HP seal can survive and kill Fury Wrath and Steady Breath Wrath BK, provided you don't inherit Lightning Breath.

Edit - Sorry, I had that with a +1 merge in the calculator. A +0 Ninian would die to the Steady Breath one.

It's interesting... When you see how close the survival margins usually are it feels like the developers put a lot more effort into balancing this game than units like Reinhardt make it seem. I've been surprised how often a units survives or dies based on 1 HP in the damage calculator.

I think the most awesome thing I found about Black Luna is that it perfectly kills Ike by 1 or 2 HP. If only he had Steady Breath by default, he would actually be the anti-Ike.

Alondite is the Ragnell equivalent, Black Luna is anti-Aether, Steady Breath would be the anti-Heavy Blade, and Swordbreaker being the only thing Ike has over him (because cannon I suppose). But I mean, Plot Powder just makes too much sense on him as his default skill.

So yeah, you're right, I think he is pretty well thought out. Although, maybe they didn't consider his blue unit killing potential with Wrath haha.