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+Atk/-HP or +Res/-Def Kliff?

Hey all!

Got lucky and pulled two Kliffs yesterday. Now, for some reason I absolutely love tanky units and have an urge to build him because of his good base bulk, and I'm planning to build him with Sagittae. Now I'm just wondering what IV set would be better.

First one I pulled is +Atk/-HP. Of course +Atk is less than ideal because of his Prf, but it can be remedied with Fort. Def/Res 3 and a Fort Seal, bringing his Atk down to 42. Thing is, you're pretty much wasting your boon here and you can't use the SS slot for CD/DD or whatnot.

Second is +Res/-Def. This hinders his ability to tank melee foes, but I don't think I'm gonna run a CC build so that's less of an issue, though archers (and dragons to some extent) are still gonna hurt him. His Res becomes pretty exceptional with his A skill and Prf, and you still have your SS slot for CD/DD/Fort/Anything else.

What do you guys think is the best choice?

Asked by TorterraX2 months 1 week ago

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Answers

Hi, congrats on the pulls.

I and some others been analyzing Kliff since the statline revealed, and my conclusion so far is that if he wants to be really good, he's far more finnicky and IV-sensitive than most other units. On most units I can find ways to work with a lot of different IVs including some weird ones, but I feel that Kliff loses a lot of potential if the IV isn't good. Maybe there are strong ways to deal with def or res banes, but I haven't figured them out yet.

He can depend a lot on relativity to other units' stats (especially in atk) for his effectiveness, which means it's probably really important to do you homework and possibly update it from time to time. If that's not for you then I suggest you find some secondary, specialist role for him because he seems to me a unit that requires a lot of care to work his best, whereas most blue mages are pretty straightforward.

Here's the work I've done on him, if you want to spend the time.
Initial analysis, with points about various IVs: https://fireemblem.gamepress.gg/q-a/i-pulled-lokikliffowain-what-do-i-do
On his atk IV: https://fireemblem.gamepress.gg/q-a/lets-discuss-kliffs-atk-iv-preference

Personally, I would take +atk -HP because the def bane is really annoying for a lot of reasons (maybe most importantly that he doesn't want desperation because he wants more special charges) and you can't cover it with atk ploy or fortress D (which would be like taking -atk, which I repudiate in the second link), also because HP is indisputably my preference of bane. However, at the end of the day it's a decision you'll have to make for yourself, and ja Kliff definitely offers himself for a diversity of interpretations.

It's a no brainer for me: +atk -hp. -def will hurt him since his weapon gives +3 def and res is decent. I say he needs more attack since his skills lower it.

One nice thing about Kliff is he is sort of IV proof (aside from a -Spd IV). He is very flexible for different builds with different IVs.

Regarding the +Atk/-Hp, this is actually a pretty great IV. While -HP is a superbane, it is still one of his safest banes to take overall. Kliff has such an absurdly low attack, especially with his Fortress Def/Res that even with a +Atk boon, he still has lower attack than most of the meta. So the +Atk may actually help him secure extra kills. If you are worried about his +Atk, you can give him a Fortress Def or Res seal to further boost his defenses, while maintaining a "neutral" Atk IV. Honestly a great build here. Also great for a Close Counter build.

His +Res/-Def is actually one of his other best builds. +Res is a superboon, giving him great magic bulk, and the ability to ploy. While his -Def is a superbane, it is still somewhat safe to build off of. He loses some bulk against physical foes, but the only real build he loses potential for is the Close Counter build. With Sagittae giving +3 Def, and +5 Def with lower Atk, and also adding into account his Fortress Def/Res, he can still gain +14 Def under most conditions. That is INSANE for a mage. All of this, and his Res is off the charts when taking his stat boosts into account.

TL;DR: It really just depends what you see yourself going for more.
+Atk/-Hp can run a Close Counter build, or further boost his defense without sacrificing his Atk.
+Res/-Def is a better mage tank, is much better for ploys. While his physical defense will be somewhat lowered, the only build this really locks him out of is a Close Counter build. Otherwise it is fairly negligible due to his tome and unique skill.

I guess you're right that he can always find a role regardless of IVs. What I said about him being finnicky about IVs is if he tries to win, like, all his matchups that aren't vs greens or anti-mages like Felicia, which I think he probably can.

Strangely enough, I think -spd is actually quite workable on him. I think I might prefer it to -atk...maybe. I'll write about why in a separate question.

And I definitely don't agree about -def. It makes a huge difference against DC units. Let's suppose he has -HP, which poses the greatest challenge for bulk. He has 39 mixed bulk, which means he can take two counterattacks even if his opponents are blue and have 55 atk (which might happen if he's against B.Hector or Effie; less likely against Nowi, L.Tiki, or Gwendolyn). Against opponents with 50 atk, he's just a single point shy of taking three counterattacks. On -def he only has 35 def, so against 55 atk he won't even survive two hits. He needs to be able to take counterattacks because his atk is low and he wants the extra special charges. In my investigation of -atk I concluded that moonbow is often not enough even on neutral atk.

He is strangely IV proof compared to most units. Obviously there are better or worse IVs for him, but many units sort of play around 1 gimmick, and the wrong IV set can ruin their gimmick and make it hard to optimize them. Kliff is very flexible, where different IV sets mostly just mean you can customize the rest of his build to accomodate him.

And I think I agree too, where -Spd is still fairly workable for him. With Sagittae in effect, he still trumps a lot of the meta, barring some of the extremely fast characters. But even in the case that he can't double enemies, he should still have high enough speed to avoid doubles by most enemies (with the exception of quick riposte, bold fighter, etc.). -Atk still sucks because it cripples his already low Atk, but it does guarantee his tome to be in effect at least.

You are mostly correct about the -def. I've personally got a +Res/-Def Kliff, and he definitely suffers from it in battle against Lightning Breath dragons and any DC armor. But I've sort of been building around this. Even with a 35 def, he still has a higher Def stat than almost every mage in the game, barring armor mages. And I've given him Fortress Def 3 seal to raise this to 40 def. On his own, with his low attack stat he can't usually kill bulky enemies without a special. But I've been running him on a drive spectrum team with Fjorm and M!Corrin. With M!Corrin, he gains +5 to all stats when 2 spaces away due to S Support. Then an additional +3 Def/Res due to Rally Def/Res. Add in +3 Def and +3 Res from Drive Def and Drive Res, as well as +3 Atk from Drive Atk (Fjorm), and his stats have gone from 39/44/42/40/43 (including Sagittae) to 39/52/47/51/54 with in combat buffs.

To preface, this isn't a build most people will or should run. But under the right team makeups, Kliff can really shine as a team generalist. He won't be the mage garnering the most KO's, nor will he be the bulkiest member of a team, but he shines as someone strong enough to mop up a battle, or take a few hits when the glass cannons cannot.

(Also as a final note: ANY unit will shine if you Summoner Support and give them all the possible buffs you can. But man is Kliff fun to screw around with with all those stat buffs, thanks to his above average statline for all stats.)