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Ares or WT Reinhardt for DC/Vantage

For a Calvary team which better fulfills the distance counter/vantage build & why?
Let’s assume availability isn’t an issue. Attached is a pic of their stats/builds
Ares +ATK -RES Reinhardt +ATK -SPD

Would love to see some math back up claims, and consideration for different scenarios.

Asked by Thefrothunder3 months 1 week ago
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Answers

I'm going to focus on Ares first, and go over the pros and cons. Ares provides a more set damage amount than Rein. This can be good and bad, but once Ares is under 75% and has a special ready (Or has fired one off already) any unit that initiates combat with him will take a blow of 79 unbuffed damage with Draconic Aura, or 80 with Bonfire. This can be boosted further with buffs. Bonfire with just a defense buff of +6 hits 83 while Draconic Aura hits 87 with +6 attack. Getting both +6 in attack and defense with bonfire gives you 86, so Draconic Aura is better if you're always being given +6 from a hone or tactic, otherwise stick with Bonfire. Not many units can take an effective 80 damage out of no where. It will consistently be at 80 as well so long as you're not debuffed, and is then buffed further than usual when buffed normally.

That is what I enjoy about Ares. Again, his damage output is consistent. Put him in a group of enemies that are either weakened or have triangle disadvantage with him and watch him slaughter them. Not to mention, but his defense is pretty decent. Sitting at 33 normally is pretty good to have. It's nothing incredible, but Ares can be used to tank quite a bit before reaching dangerous levels. Just attack heavy hitting melee units first, then get into vantage to take care of mages. He WILL die VERY easily to mages if he's unable to attack first.

Side Note: If you're looking at Arena, Aether becomes much more easier to fire off. It becomes "Radiant Aether" and when fired off once then only has a cooldown of 2.

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Going onto Rein. I, myself, am not really that big of a fan of him anymore. That being said, being able to strike twice when initiated on is definitely a neat trick that shouldn't be underestimated.

Unlike Ares, Reinhardt's damage output is more varied. While Ares had a consistent output of 80, Rein's is more like 56 + 56. That is better when you look at it, but BOTH of Rein's numbers go down with every defense point the opponent has while Ares only goes down by one. If the opponent has more than 16 defense (Most units that aren't Delthea) than Ares would deal more damage... So long as Rein doesn't have his special charged. Moonbow is more than likely the best special for him because it helps him in a spot that he hurts the most. It helps him cut down bulky enemies that would otherwise shrug him off. Moonbow is quick, and 2/3 times you'll be able to fire one off.

Going on the topic of specials, if you don't manage to kill your opponent with Rein, you're giving them least 2 hits of cooldown on their own special. With Ares you may be able to tank a hit, but with Rein you are almost certain to be doubled afterwards. Sitting at 19 speed is very bad for a unit that isn't armoured.

There are a few things that Reinhardt can do that Ares cannot. While he's got terrible speed, Rein can tank a hit from a mage much easier than Ares can. While Rein may be doubled, so will the mage attacking him. Most mages have terrible physical defense, so throwing your Rein in front of a mage from full health might be a good choice. You'll more than likely kill them in the process and in return you're put into vantage range. If the first hit kills your opponent, you'll also have a Moonbow ready to fire off.

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Tried to sum this up;

Ares is much more consistent with damage, but Rein has the ability to hit much higher and lower. Rein has to rely on his special and may require a bit of thinking if you don't want to waste it while Ares' is always up after first use. Rein's speed isn't too big of an issue so long as you kill the target on your counter.

Ares is a better physical tank while Rein is a better mage tank. Ares however, can continue tanking physically with his decent speed while Rein needs to kill immediately after his first tank, otherwise you run the risk of dying to your opponents accelerated special (Afterall, you just hit them twice).

Attack buffs and debuffs are doubled on Rein while Ares' is around 1.5.

Ares can use Aether better than Rein can... but is less desired on either unit.

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Assuming the same seals as shown (Ares with Atk/Def 2), the damage with Bonfire should be 89 with both +6 attack and defense buff. Also, it'd make sense to compare Draconic Aura with +6 Atk and Bonfire with +6 Atk, not the former with Bonfire with +6 Def (which incidentally damages less). The former comparison involves the same C skill(s) on a cavalry team, and could also be fit on an offense-oriented-only team.

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Assuming the shown units w/ no buffs, and a Bonfire trigger from Ares and no special from Reinhardt (all very favorable assumptions for Ares), Reinhardt also does more damage than Ares up to 31 Def, and ties at 32 - not the 16 Def of Delthea. In this calculation Reinhardt is hurt more by the weapon triangle though (and also odd things like Urvan or Deflect Melee).

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by Azurem 3 months 1 week ago

Reinhardt does two hits so he's twice as effected by everything. As unmerged, relatively low investment units I would say Ares is definitely better. If you're going to go all out on +10 like that, you might be able to get more out of Reinhardt.

Reinhardt deals (56 - def)*2 damage
Ares deals 79-def damage
79-def = (56 - def)*2
79 = 112 - def
def = 33

So with the stats in your picture Ares does more damage against opponents with more than 33 def, Reinhardt deals more damage against opponents with less than 33 def. If both units have a +6 atk buff from Hone Cav, the threshold goes up to 36 def. If you've got Def Smoke or Chill Def or something as well, Reinhardt does better against enemies with less than 43 base def.

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One thing to consider on Reinhardt: he will be probably buffed so it is a good idea to change that attack+3 seal for heavy blade, and then you will probably have your opponent eating a hit + moonbow proc (it can be glimmer if you prefer it) before he can attack.

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by Hideri 3 months 1 week ago

Reinhardt can also be useful from the start without his special since he can attack twice, might not be a good oppurtunity to get them in vantage range so i would pick Reinhardt

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