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Arena Revamp Proposal

The way the arena works right now sucks ass, you gotta run skill ith high sp cost and units with high bst values to get top tier, so heres one way that I could see the arena being "fixed".

Lets say each season, instead of moving up or down a tier at the end of a season,every player starts at tier 1, and has a week to climb as high as they possibly can.

The way I would suggest this working is that instead of streaks, your points stack up, meaning that losing a unit or two wouldnt greatly affect an arena run, because you would sit there score stacking by just beating every single team, gaining more and more points, clearing each tiers score requirement threshold, with 21 being the only tier with limited amounts of spots available.

This would do a couple of very important thing, and they are:
1.letting players regardless of monetary investment still have a shot at tier 21, by simply constantly killing other teams and racking up more and more points.
2. Letting players that actually enjoy the arena keep battling in it for more and more rewards instead of just clearing five matches per week.
3. Allow players to use literally any units they want to reach any tier they want.
4. Keeping the arena diversified due to not having to build very specific ways to counter very specific units, thereby making it a worthwhile challenge instead of using cookie cutter builds against cookie cutter teams.
5. Actually give players a sturdy idea of how they rank against the rest of the players so they can see their improvement over time.
6. Remove mindless arena score cycling due to not needing five highest point matches.
7. ???
8. profit

Asked by Nilla3 months 2 weeks ago

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Answers

How are they going to sell Monthly Zelgius Banners to Arena Rats if scoring is based fairly though?

People still want units that make the game easy mode, and armored units are exactly that. Why bother playing when you can giver an armored unit bold fighter, steady breath, and quick riposte and just win everytime?

They should release skills that disable skills that guarantee follow-up attacks (QR, Vengeful Fighter, Bold Fighter, breaker skills, etc.). Maybe, just maybe that will answer that skillset.

Wary fighter cancels bold and vengeful fighter.

If speed check is successful yes. I've seen Bold Fighters do follow ups on Wary fighters, as well as Vengeful. But that applies only to other armored units. Even Legendary Hector and Myrrh can't prevent bold and vengeful fighter.

Great flame and Wary Fighter cancel all followups from one check, thats why wary fighter quick riposte seal normal hector can double while defending while things attacking him couldnt, wary would cancel out his axes qr, but not the second one.

This is also why if Myrrh could use wary fighter, she could cancel bold fighter +spd zelgius from doubling at all, her weapon would cancel bold fighter, while wary would cancel speed.

I mean this literally can't happen, but it's a nice thought

And whys that?

I don't claim to have a solid answer, but part of it I think is that IS is probably too scared to rock the boat of people who whaled for Zelgius+10 and M.Grima+10 and B.Hector+10.

Generally speaking, IS has made a lot of decisions which evidence rather strongly that they're just in this for money, which will not surprise any cynic but certainly frustrates more than a few players. The current arena system, as you pointed out, is bogus, and it continues as it is because it rakes in more $$$.

The different between "can't" and "very unlikely" is that "can't" means impossibility.

I'm suggesting that their higher-ups lack the moral character to do it, thereby making it impossible for them.

I'll do it in list format
1. it means you can get by with minimum investment with a horse check and a razzledazzle healer.
2. +10 would no longer be needed, making merging much less rewarding.
3. the grind would take FOREVER
4. no one would feel any accomplishment besides getting into tier 21
5. all of the supermerges people have already made of armors would be for naught.
6. profits would go down for them considerably even if they turned up powercreep to the max

I like the idea of being able to use anyone and have creative builds. the problem is changing it now would ruin a lot of people's progress in that system. Honestly I think the best solution is to make a new mode similar to arena, and just make it run differently. Something like this mode (with less stress on ranking and more on participating) with sort of fun bonuses like run a character with this skill, or have one of these bonus units on your team, or run an all colorless team. They can have an invisible elo to rank how you are doing to match you with opponents you'd have the best time facing (challenging but not impossible). And then they can show your progress each week and give you rewards based on that. Because ranking a PvE game that isn't too difficult based on skill is a nightmare unless you somehow set very specific rules. It's just an idea.

1. Sure, if you're skilled enough.
2. +10 is +4 to each stat, which more stats mean easier times, so no, youre wrong.
3. Not really if you're good enough at it, and it also depends on score thresholds.
4. Thats a matter of opinion, and also wrong, because if you can't break into tier 20, and then you finally do, you'll feel happy probably.
5. Nope, not true.
6. Also not true, because believe it or not, people spend more for units they like just as much as they do for units that currently help them score better.

I don't believe it would ruin any progress because it wouldn't magically make peoples units useless, a +10 basic bitch build male grima will still be dangerous no matter how the tiering works.

Participation without competition leads to stagnation. But hey, if you want roe of a challenge, then just set the new arena to give more points the fewer turns it takes a round to be cleared.

Ooh, i like this idea. Make it like Grand Conquests where the rewards are single player based but you face off against other player’s teams. And there’s still an incentive to max merge units to make the process easier and less time consuming.

You could just remove BST and SP from the equation entirely. Instead of BST you base the score off Rarity and Level of each unit, so All 5* 40+10 have the same base score. Then you add in Skill level, skills at their max upgrade level all score the same, DB4 and Rally + would score the same as the next level down. You still gain unit effectiveness from those skills, just not extra arena score.

This keeps all the whale units still at the top of the score charts, but doesn't cater to just the high point units/skills (everyone can use their favorite units!)

People worry about the return of Reinhardt, but he's already frequently encountered in tier 18/19 so you better know how to deal with him regardless so it's really a non-issue.

Doing things based off rarity and merge level means tempest trial and GHB units still get no time to shine.

In any case, pulling it off with lower-merged units suggests skill, which should score higher shouldn't it? To put it crassly, it takes better than an idiot to down a 5*+10 B.Hector with some unmerged 4*.

I was just thinking reasonably - from a business standpoint you wouldn't want to screw over those who invested the most money into the app. The changes I suggested would mostly keep things the same, but the key difference is in gaining variety in the opponents, which in turn possibly requires better play tactics. It's not perfect, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.

It's also nearly impossible unless you have a character that is specifically designed to fight B. Hector, like a Hammer + TA on a high Defense/HP unit. I can guarantee you that there isn't a single Roy build that can kill B. Hector, let alone surviving more than one combat, so I guess he's one of the units that would be useless in the Brave Hector meta.

Here's Palla one rounding a brave hector, your argument is invalid.

Generally speaking, I like any system that will reward good play and penalize mistakes while still reflecting the overall quality of a person's play. I think your idea about accumulating points does that, the problem being that some people might actually start spending a lot on dueling crests, and high spenders might even accumulate advantages that f2p players are hopeless to compete with.

I think you have a gross misunderstanding of arena scoring.
By the way, all of the values I'm going to list are going to be taken at base, so I may mention, for example, that there is "only a 25 point difference" in something, but in Arena Assault or with a bonus unit, that would actually be 50 points because of the doubled score. But I'll make sure to put the practical values in parenthesis.

First off, merges are far more important than high BST and SP values, something armored units have plenty of.
Ex: A team of 4 First Generation, Infantry 5*+10's will score about 14 (28) points higher than 4 super rare, unmerged, 175 BST armored units. This is mostly because SP costs are so unimportant that they often only contribute to a few points per hero, and they are almost the same values even when comparing armored units and mages, so SP optimization is a bit of a joke unless you can just barely make it into a high tier 20.

Next, BST is only going to differ 4 (8) points per hero. For example, a team of 4 ranged dancers/singers is going to have about 139 BST and score 16 (32) points lower than 4 175 BST armored units.

Now onto the purpose of this spiel: Merges.
Each merge is worth the same amount of points in arena regardless of if it is on a mage or armored unit. Now, a single merge is only worth 1 (2) point. However, 40 merges is 40 whole points (80), and is by far the hardest place to increase scoring on high BST units because they are much more rare.
Side note, an unmerged Legendary Marth with his base kit + Reposition and Flashing Blade Seal scores almost the same as an unmerged Bold fighter/ SP maxing build.

Finally, a 5*+10 team of Nowi, Fae (or Libra), Soleil, and Shigure(or Donnel) is going to get 3 (6) points less each from BST, but 7 (14) points more per hero. They are not only a pretty good team, but also common and effective for Arena scoring.

And this last bit for a completely different topic, but tier 21 isn't meant for you. It's a gift to the people who spend an amazing amount of money or dedicate themselves to only summoning for the same few units to get enough merges to compete in the higher tiers. It's not meant for people like me who want to collect my favorite heroes and use them in creative ways.

It's also an incentive for those high scoring players to keep playing and build up new teams with all the feathers and orbs they'll get every week.

First off, I know exactly how arena scoring works.
Second, I think you're extremely conceited, and by extension, retarded, for thinking that I have no idea what i'm talking about.
Every single thing you posted right there is irrelevant and has no bearing on this topic at all, congratulations, you played yourself.

I swear I’ve seen this picture so many times I could draw it pixel by pixel with my eyes closed

Rereading my first sentence, I guess I set the tone to seem like a dick, but that's just the first thing I thought of when I read your question/ suggestion. Honestly, I was just trying to inform you because the first thing you suggest is that the arena system depends entirely on the units' SP and BST, which I interpreted as you not knowing how Arena scoring works because it just doesn't work the way you described it, or at least not to that degree. You also said that the current arena is broken by suggesting that it needs to be "fixed" so I assumed that you felt it was unfair, which is entirely what my last paragraph is about: the real strategizing starts at summoning for a specific set of units to use for Arena. I fully recognize that what I posted was irrelevant to what you suggested, but you missed the point of my comment;probably because the first thing I did was piss you off. To that I say sorry, it really wasn't my intention when I was researching and explaining how arena works to make sure I wasn't lying or telling false information. Now that I know, I can see that you are familiar with how scoring works, but when the first thing you say is an exaggeration or for better words, a lie, "you gotta run skills with high sp cost and units with high bst values to get top tier", can you understand why I thought you were mistaken?

I do have something that I feel wholeheartedly about though, when you felt challenged with what you knew, the first thing you did was insult the person telling you that you were wrong, and I think you should help yourself kick that habit. For most of my life, up until my Junior year in high school, I did the same thing: deny that I was wrong and then insult them or argue about being right. Now I know better and when someone tells me I'm wrong, I ask then why, and if I really am mistaken, I accept it with a "thank you".

I'd wish for you to do the same, and I'm saying this as a friend and not just some random asshole trying to make you mad, ruin your day, or make you hate yourself. I respect your feelings towards my previous comment because it could have been worded in a much less condescending way, and if you'd like, I could actually say what I think about the arena/ new mode that you've thought up. Thank you for hearing me out.

That's a long winded way of saying "my bad".

A more realistic modification is to simply drop BST from being a factor, or at least reduce how much of a factor it is. That way we get at least some diversity in tier 20+ without totally changing everything in an unrealistic way for IS.

So it’s basically a watered-down TT?