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about the Lon'qu refine...

I am really confused why people are complaining about his refine. yeah its not really "unique" but its really damn good. L&D is absolutely perfect for his statline and he keeps the slaying effect. Some people say that "he can't take hits now" or "can't keep up with powercreep" but that is incorrect. he gains +3 hp with the refine so the lowered defenses won't matter since he can still tank a hit easily. now this guy has 34 / 44 offenses... thats literally Karla with a speed boon. how is that not amazing?? oh, and he also gets easy merges.

Asked by SplitMyHeart2 months 3 weeks ago

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Failed expectations or something? 🤔 Probably left a lot of people wanting something else when they first heard about it.

I gave it some thought and I have to agree. I actually plan on making this build sometime in the future. (Field Buffs are placeholders for the LnD refine.)

Why not run double LnD and just kill everything O.O

You can't kill everything if you're dead.

You only need to lose some HP then desperation kicks in

Having 5 extra bulk doesn't hurt in case he wants to run himself against a blue that he can take out before his desperation is active. He's fast enough to content himself with swift sparrow; it's nearly impossible to natural double him on enemy phase even if swift sparrow isn't helping him there.

Prevailing opinion on the Lon'qu builds is transferred from Raven who is basically an axe myrmidon.

If Lon'qu truly is, as you put it, a budget Karla, then the conclusion we can quickly reach concerning "why people are complaining" is that they are brainlets and sheep who follow the trend.

Since when has a unit being a stat-stick ever been a bad thing? These insane players can give as much 5* swords and skill fodder to their +10 Soleil or whichever "red pool bloat unit" they have chosen to invest in, but at the end of the day they can only use them once in Arena Assault. And if they are blessed, they might not use them anyway just for the sake of points.

The truth of the matter is that units with ascended speed can be more formidable than they appear to be. Since Lon'qu, to my surprise, has only 1 less HP than Marisa, the touted "Myrmidon tank," it's alarming when you consider that you can easily hit 50 speed before reaching +10. If you're into memes, reaching 60 unbuffed speed is hilarious but possible. The bottom line is having that speed means you can't be one shotted with HP like Lon'qu's. And if you are using Desperation, that's all you need.

In short, he's now basically a slightly less hard-hitting, in most cases faster, but generally having a greater ratio of HP to Speed in regards to Soleil.

Marisa's the "Myrmidon Tank" because she has a total of 76 bulk (46Hp + 30Def). Lon' qu only has 67 (45Hp + 22Def).

Soleil can run Firesweep+ Galeforce Heavy Blade and has more build flexibility. That's her general edge over Lon' qu.

Regardless, he does have a means of being effective now so that's good.

The refine is not weak by any means..he's basically a sword Raven now. The big problem here is that Raven doesn't have that many other fast axe alternatives, Lon'qu has like 2000 other fast swords next to him who all want the same place in a team.

The biggest problem with his refine (imho) is, that it gave me no reason to promote him, because he would play exactly the same as all the Ayras and Karlas, there is nothing interesting and nothing new is added to his playstyle. People that already liked Lon'qu probably already have him at +10 and this is definitely good for them, but people who were on the fence about him now can't really be convinced to invest in him.

I've been trying to write my thoughts down without writing anything stupid and we'll, you just did it for me XD. I don't think it's bad at all it's just that when you're in such a big pool of heroes you're gonna need something to stick out. Thank you

Yeah exactly, he's sadly not unique enough to stand out. It is definitely easily possible turn him into a powerful hero, but that wasn't really my point.

I guess the one point that I haven't mentioned is that he's arguably a really good investment for people who haven't managed to summon Ayra, Karla, Mia or any other sword of similar qualities.

I was looking for something unique and I was worried that they'll just give him a stat boost and that's it. So when I saw it was just Raven's weapon I was a little upset, I feel like just copy and pasting one refine weapon To another is very lazy. To clarify once again to anyone who reads this no I don't think his weapon is bad, far from it actually. What I was expecting was IS to continue to make cool and unique weapons to these old units who don't get any use.

that actually makes sense to me. its still a better investment in the long run but I guess he doesn't really stand out.

Well no I don't agree. Ayra doesn't play the same because she has some bulk to her and her signature is spamming that ridiculous special of hers. Karla does play more or less the same, but she's super-expensive to merge, first because she's a 5* exclusive, and second because you're giving up wrath fodder (whereas we still have Reinhardt to fodder for vantage and Beruka to fodder for glimmer).

Has he not gone from being dependent on his special for extra damage to maybe pulling off Karla's galeforce build, especially when well merged? And he's probably gained status as the best red shield pulser with higher HP and the ability to double L&D.

If that's enough of a reason for you to promote him or even +10 merge him, then more power to you, but I'm personally so burnt out on fast swords, that a red Raven won't really do it for me.

Take Odin for example. He's also in an extremely oversaturated blue mage pool, but the refine gave him such a unique trait, that you arguably can't find anywhere else. I went from hating every moment I got an Odin, to immediately merging him to +10 with as much investment as possible.
Lon'qu didn't do this for me...saw LnD and his hp stat and I saw Raven and all the builds associated with him (Galeforce, Pavise, classic Draconic Aura) and saw absolutely nothing new.

If you're burnt out on fast red swords then I think you made a great choice. I don't think he does anything Karla and Raven can't already do; his strength is probably the shield pulse build because he has so much HP.

Yeah, the shield pulse niche build will work well with his hp stat and he can elavate that further into supporting his team with infantry pulse and panic ploy, but he was sort of able to do these things even before the refine. It is actually a small advantage over some other fast swords, but it's just not enough for me..I probably set my expectations way too high with him after seeing what can be done with undesired units like Odin. Maybe after the initial thoughts disperse, I might give him a try somewhere down the road.

He's arguably a worse Karla, which is fine in my books because he's significantly easier to merge and still hits hard enough to get the job done. When you have 44 spd without a boon you can go for +atk and have 57 atk with swift sparrow (see my comment above). Karla has 51+7 without her A-skill, so she hits harder (and 3-5 atk will add up on two hits so it's not to be dismissed), but 57 is territory where you can consider giving up your special for galeforce so the guy is doing well. Also, he's better at shield pulse than Karla because he has more HP and can use double L&D to destroy his defenses.

People are just being blind, which is far from uncommon.

Karla is still technically better but looking at the direction newer units are going I don't think Karla can gain much use out of her prf weapon. New units are getting pretty speedy making her weapon inconsistent. +atk Lon'qu is really close to her damage output even with her Vassals blade.

If Vassal's blade can't give much bonus damage it means the opponent is also very fast, which means in many cases that their defenses are not as good and her first concern is securing the double. If she can secure the double, she gets at least 3 bonus damage, which puts her at 51 atk +3 compared to Lon'qu 53 atk with the boon, so she's still barely ahead.

Against slower tanks she will have a distinctive advantage.

So I think you have a point in that there are increasing numbers of opponents who will minimize the effect of Vassal's blade, but the difference is still significant.

I'm quite happy with his refine, to be honest. One build I like to see Ravens running is double L&D with Shield Pulse and Pavise. With greater speed and much better HP, I think that Lon'qu is actually a better user of that build. This refine makes his important stats even better while still keeping his more unique edge over the other sword units, his high HP, still available. His defensive stats were too low to do much with (at least without heavy investment) in the first place. Being able to run Infantry Pulse or Panic Ploy is pretty amazing boon for him that the others just can't run.

Funny thing, for next week's arena my Lon'qu will have 61 HP with the bonus unit scores (+6 and neutral HP). He's got Brazen Atk/Spd and Wrath, and both will activate at a still beefy 45 HP. Next week is gonna be fun!